Reiner Amplification Megathread

[MarkA]

Oh yeah .. the neighbors across the street and two houses down just shut off their leaf blower-arounder and started looking over here, shaking their head ..

Of course I shake my head every time he runs that stupid leaf blower-arounder.

Circle of Life, dude, the Circle of Life.

That B15 sounds special. I still have my first amp and first bass -- still play the bass -- but you have your dad's amp! Will look forward to your Studio 1200 impressions as you get more time with it.

 

[kd5uwl]

JGR .. here's one for you .. a question for which, admittedly, there may be no single right answer:

On a day like tomorrow and Sunday I'll play my bass off and on all day long. I might play for 15 minutes to two hours, then walk away for as long .. 15 minutes to two hours, and then I'm back at it.

With my tube amps, I've always left them on for the day once turned on, and just go to standby. But they are on for hours at a time or all day. I just come out of standby to play, and then go back to standby when done.

With my solid state amps, I turn them on to play, and then turn them off when done.

Considering those playing habits, what do you recommend for my shiny new Studio 1200?

For the rest of you who are interested: I intend to have a more detailed report this weekend as I have been promising. But I can tell you so far, that between gain and master and all the EQ, this thing has so much to offer in terms of different types of tone. Fuzzbass, I think you've been reading along .. I believe you have #3 .. do you disagree with anything I've said so far? Does what I've said regarding the comparison to my B15, with the EQ settings I included in the photo a few posts back, surprise you?

 

[JGR]

JGR .. here's one for you .. a question for which, admittedly, there may be no single right answer:

On a day like tomorrow and Sunday I'll play my bass off and on all day long. I might play for 15 minutes to two hours, then walk away for as long .. 15 minutes to two hours, and then I'm back at it.

With my tube amps, I've always left them on for the day once turned on, and just go to standby. But they are on for hours at a time or all day. I just come out of standby to play, and then go back to standby when done.

With my solid state amps, I turn them on to play, and then turn them off when done.

Considering those playing habits, what do you recommend for my shiny new Studio 1200?

For the rest of you who are interested: I intend to have a more detailed report this weekend as I have been promising. But I can tell you so far, that between gain and master and all the EQ, this thing has so much to offer in terms of different types of tone. Fuzzbass, I think you've been reading along .. I believe you have #3 .. do you disagree with anything I've said so far? Does what I've said regarding the comparison to my B15, with the EQ settings I included in the photo a few posts back, surprise you?

Hey Eric,

Either is fine - I'd probably leave it on.

 

[thumbs&fingers]

Actually I have #3. And it's glorious. Very good tool to craft your bass and sound.

Obviously this can change but right now I have:

Sliderbass
Fuzzbass
Thumbs&Fingers
G4String
Mark Sachetti
kd5uwl

.

 

[MarkA]

...With my tube amps, I've always left them on for the day once turned on, and just go to standby. But they are on for hours at a time or all day. I just come out of standby to play, and then go back to standby when done.

With my solid state amps, I turn them on to play, and then turn them off when done.

Considering those playing habits, what do you recommend for my shiny new Studio 1200?

What an eminently practical question. I'm actually a little jealous.

For the rest of you who are interested: I intend to have a more detailed report this weekend as I have been promising. But I can tell you so far, that between gain and master and all the EQ, this thing has so much to offer in terms of different types of tone. Fuzzbass, I think you've been reading along .. I believe you have #3 .. do you disagree with anything I've said so far? Does what I've said regarding the comparison to my B15, with the EQ settings I included in the photo a few posts back, surprise you?

I hadn't looked at the photo before - hasn't realized that was your "B15" setting through the 810. You're really using that EQ! I'd be interested in hearing what that sounds like.

Either is fine - I'd probably leave it on.

Good to know - though I'd be afraid I'd forget about it and leave it on overnight!

 

[Fuzzbass]

Fuzzbass, I think you've been reading along .. I believe you have #3 .. do you disagree with anything I've said so far? Does what I've said regarding the comparison to my B15, with the EQ settings I included in the photo a few posts back, surprise you?

I've been reading along, hoping that you'll love yours as much as I love mine... seems like that's happening. I've been keeping quiet to let you form your own opinions.

No disagreements with anything you've said. I can't comment on your B15 settings because I'm embarrassed to say that I've never owned one and have very little experience with them. But your overall point is correct: there are a ton of tones available with this amp.

I will add that your B15 settings photo might raise some eyebrows with what appear to be extreme EQ settings, but they aren't that extreme. I love the JGR EQ taper: you get gentle boost/cut between roughly 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, and dramatic changes begin to occur outside of that range. It's perfect for me because I love the tone of the 1200 when it's flat, and room acoustics can often be handled with gentle changes. Some EQs can be frustrating because moving just one tick will make a big difference which makes precision difficult. For the record I have nothing against tone tweaking, and as noted, powerful changes ARE possible with the 1200 EQ.

 

[kd5uwl]

Yes, last night I played a little more and ran the EQ much more flatly while tweaking the gain and master. And you are right .. the degree of change provided by the EQ knobs is gentle until you reach 3 or 9 o'clock, and you'll notice my settings are close to that.

I've flattened things out some since that initial photo taken 10 minutes into my first experience with the amp. But remember I shoot for a lot of mid to high midrange grit but try to do it without accentuating too much fret noise or string noise (roundwounds).

So maybe I can explain my "B15" settings a little: As I said, I've been playing that old amp a lot lately, and I like to really crank it. Like, using Channel 1 and the "bass" jack, volume at about noon or even near 1:00. To do that with this 25-watt for real all-tube amp I pull the bass back to about 9:30 and treble to about 10:00, and play it really loud.

At those settings I get the high midrange tone I like without a lot of string noise.

Think how Geddy stands out in the mix. 30 years ago, which equates to about 26 years before I starting (trying) to play bass, I thought gee, that guy has lots of bass!! But now I realize he really doesn't...it's the high end that makes him stand out.

Bottom line: the settings I like are not likely to be what anyone else likes. Plus I'm playing in my house in a fully carpeted fairly dead room.

This weekend I will be able to record a little from the B15 and Studio 1200 for comparison (I'll mic the cabs). But I'm not going to get too hung up on this aspect of the 1200 .. hard to compare the two when the B15 has a completely different cab design and a single 15 as compared to the 810 I'm playing my 1200 through.

I'll also be trying out the DI this weekend. I'll report on the degree of quiet there. Also, my full 810 is a 4 ohm load and that's what I'm playing right now but I'll try the amp with an 8 ohm load, too, and I'll see what I can do about going below 4 ohms. I can connect half the 810 (which is an 8 ohm load) and one of my 4 ohm cabinets .. just for the purposes of seeing the amp run at 2.7 ohms .. not that I'd normally play that cab combination. And I'll try driving a slave amp using the preamp out - you know, just to make sure that works too

 

[Fuzzbass]

Last night my hard rock band played one of my favorite clubs: nice wide stage area, decent acoustics. (It's Perrys in Odenton, where you saw us a couple of years ago, Jon). I ran the Studio 1200 through my NV610, and it totally killed! It sounded incredible all by itself -- as usual I dial in treble boost to brighten up the tweeterless NV610 -- but this is the rock band, so I brought some pedals for a more metal tone.

Note: the Studio 1200 has caused a paradigm shift for me. For literally decades I've been a rack rig guy, and haven't used pedals except as brief experiments. The JGR 1U pre became a part of my rack rig, and I'd often use it in conjunction with a SansAmp rack pre with the rock band (again, for hard rock crunch). However the 1200 sounds so incredible -- it's a boutique tube preamp and high quality SS power amp in one small box -- that it's definitely number one. I still love hard rock crunch with the hard rock band, so after doing some research I've been auditioning some OD pedals I've acquired.

I also got the Empress Compressor, which is absolutely amazing. I use gentle 4:1 compression (it can also do 2:1 and 10:1). Aside from the near studio quality, my favorite feature is the wet/dry blend that makes the compression nearly transparent, even though it does (gently) even things out.

Anyway, here's cell phone video from Facebook. FOH was for vocals and kick drum only. Again, it's with my favorite drummer: he added some go-go feel to the Def Leppard song, I love it!


Pics:

Pedals and kicks. First two sets: Ashdown LoMenzo Hyperdrive, Empress Compressor, and Voodoo Labs power supply. The Hyperdrive is lots of fun because it has a frequency sweep control to tune the overdrive. I set it to give some edge to the high mids/low treble, rather than full face melt. It also has a wet/dry Blend control. I used the Martin Keith bass, with the reverse P pickup dialed in.

Wider shot. Check the 1200 EQ: treble boost only.

Even wider

Even more wider

Set #3 -- same pedals (and kicks!) except I replaced the Hyperdrive with BDDI. I've owned the BDDI for ~20 years, but I haven't used it in over 10 years even though I bring it to every gig just in case (of course I have been using SansAmp rack preamps regularly). Also, I changed things up by dialing in the MusicMan pickup on the Keith bass, setting it for extra growl and sizzle. SansAmp settings are as used: slight bass and treble cut, pretty big presence boost, Blend set to noon, medium-light overdrive.

Here's where much of the extra growl and sizzle came from! MusicMan style pickups are very different than P-style, and with a non-MusicMan bass they can be tricky to dial in, but I got killer tone last night, and it worked perfectly for "Aeroplane" by Red Hot Chili Peppers.

EDIT: just realized that the BDDI was probably more responsible for the mid boost than the Nordy MM pickup, but my comment about MM style pickups still applies.

Also note that by the third set we were pretty darn loud, but the 1200 wasn't breaking a sweat. (As noted in a previous post I have gotten the clip light to flash with this band, but the singer has been doing a pretty good job of reining in the guitarist).

Wider shot... includes Murphy's in a Heineken glass


P.S. With my non-hard-rock bands I've been using the 1200 all by itself, but I will probably start using the Empress Compressor because it sounds so damn good, and doesn't mess with the beauty of the 1200.

 

[monkeyfinger]

It is amazing how much you can hear the nuances of effects when you have a high quality system. Everything sounds better. And it is easier to dial in that sound you have in your head. Continued good fortune with your new rig.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

What's with the rag on top of the amp? Seems like that would block vents for cooling air flow and cause problems?

 

[Fuzzbass]

What's with the rag on top of the amp? Seems like that would block vents for cooling air flow and cause problems?

It's just a hand towel that the singer passes out to the band. It's nice for mopping sweat at hot gigs, drying my hands after holding a water or beer. I didn't always have it over the vents, but I can't imagine a heating problem. My rack rigs (powered by Stewart 2.1) used to get warm to the touch, and would even warm the top of my speaker cab. I haven't noticed this with the Reiner, not even at my loudest gigs. Not sure if it's because it's unracked, well ventilated, more efficient, or all of the above, but I've never felt it get hot to the touch. I'll doublecheck just to make sure, though.

 

[Fuzzbass]

And yeah, some of my bandmates think I'm a dork for taking pictures of my gear. The Xbox carrying case I've been using for the 1200 just raises the dork factor. I don't care, but the Xbox case is showing some wear from the larger-and-heavier-than-normal load so I ordered the following case to use while I'm waiting for the GigSkinz (I'll be able to put it to other use if/when the GigSkinz arrives).

SKB 1SKB-UB1515 Universal Equipment/Mixer Bag, 15"x15"x5" | Musician's Friend

 

[JGR]

Ken, thats a bummer your bag still hasn't arrived. I'd love to hear your pedals the next time you're up this way.

Regarding cooling - the module itself has a beefy built-in heat sink, and it's bolted to the aluminum chassis which provides further heat dissipation. The design guidelines recommend additional cooling for continuous high power applications - it would probably be fine without it, but I like the added insurance - not only for preventing shutdown under stressful conditions, but also added longevity - it's good to keep everything nice and cool. There is a lot of ventillation on the top and sides of the chassis; the fan pulls air in from the right side and directs it through a pseudo tunnel over the output devices and out the other side.

With the initial prototype, I ran an 80HZ sine wave through it for six or seven minutes (couldn't stand to listen any longer!!) into a four ohm cab at just below clipping, and the bottom of the case only got slightly warm to the touch. So go ahead and take it to that summer gig in Death Valley, and fear not!! . And yes, I have been to Death Valley in the summer - twice actually - just me and the German tourists.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I've never been to DV in summer, the latest was early April, usually we went in February or March for our camping trips. We camped once at the Race Track, very cool! It even rained while we were there.

One August day, on our way back from Bishop Creek Park, we spent some time at Fossil Falls; it was really hot there! We had to soak towels with water and put them on our heads while hiking around there.

 

[kd5uwl]

More time on #4:

Yesterday I played my Kala U-bass through the Studio 1200. This bass has a piezo pickup .. no preamp. With all EQ controls set at noon this bass sounded itself .. lots of thick, heavy bass and a sort of upright sound. If you know these basses you'll know what I mean .. and it really sounded super on this amp!

Then I played my acoustic, a Takamine TB-240-SC. This bass has a preamp. With this bass I ended up keeping all the amp's EQ at noon except bass and low mid, each of which I boosted to 1:00. With these settings the acoustic sounded to my ears like it does when unplugged .. just louder and with a bit more bass.

Then back to my Ric 4003 which I played for about an hour, and here is what I've just about decided: In my opinion, and to my ears here at my house, this amp sounds better, and more consistently so across the entire fretboard, than all my other amps. As a reminder, these are:

- 1967 Ampeg B-15
- 1973 Kustom K200
- 1982 Peavey Mark IV
- 2013 Ashdown CTM-15
- 2014 Ampeg V4b

When listening critically while using these amps I notice places along the fretboard where I don't like the sound as much. So I EQ, adjust volume or gain and etc, but there is always something somewhere along the fretboard I'm not completely satisfied with. Perhaps this is (partly) why I've kept acquiring more amps ..

But so far, with this amp, that is not the case. Every instrument I have played through it has never sounded better. And, this is consistent not only across the fretboards but also across the volume range of the amp .. well, across the volume range I've been able to try so far .. that's another thing - the Studio 1200 produces more than twice the power of all my other amps combined!!

 

[winegamd]

Which cabs are you using it with?

 

[Fuzzbass]

But so far, with this amp, that is not the case. Every instrument I have played through it has never sounded better. And, this is consistent not only across the fretboards but also across the volume range of the amp .. well, across the volume range I've been able to try so far .. that's another thing - the Studio 1200 produces more than twice the power of all my other amps combined!!

It is amazing how much you can hear the nuances of effects when you have a high quality system. Everything sounds better. And it is easier to dial in that sound you have in your head. Continued good fortune with your new rig.

Sums it up in a nutshell. Obviously the Reiner isn't the only way to get there, but it's as close to a blank canvas as I've ever heard. Much as I loved JGR's 1U preamp (or Alembic F2B or Read Purity) soloed through a power amp, I prefer the 1200. Can't say why, I just do.

Yes, I often use tone coloration (NV610 cab, SansAmp or other preamps, now pedals), but the point is to avoid mixing too many colors: the end result there is often brown. Seriously, if I want clean/flat I can easily get it soloing the 1200 thru my flatter cabs. If I want crunch for modern rock, it's nice to hear the uncolored coloration (so to speak) of the pedal or device.

 

[kd5uwl]

Which cabs are you using it with?

So far, Ampeg 2011 Heritage 810. I only have two other cabs: an '82 Peavey 1810 and a '13 Eden Ex110.

 

[kd5uwl]

So, based on my satisfaction with the Studio 1200 I'm ready to sell my other two SS amps (the '73 and the '82 listed a couple posts back), will always keep the B-15, and will keep the CTM-15. The future of my V4b is undecided. I'll do some A/B over the next few days, or definitely this weekend.

I did A/B with the B-15 like I said I would .. I will definitely get a recording done as promised within the next few days, this weekend fer sure. If I can get a decent recording you just won't believe the comparison when using the settings I showed.

 

[Sliderbass]

Sums it up in a nutshell. Obviously the Reiner isn't the only way to get there, but it's as close to a blank canvas as I've ever heard. Much as I loved JGR's 1U preamp (or Alembic F2B or Read Purity) soloed through a power amp, I prefer the 1200. Can't say why, I just do.

Ken;
I've played both through the same cabinet(Ampeg 610) and I'm starting to feel the same way. I also can't put my finger on it but more time comparing the two would help.