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Reiner Amplification Megathread

#941
I'm the blue dot just south of the word 'Seattle' and my Studio1200 is the red flag just east of Portland. SO CLOSE!

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#942
JGR said:
Hi Chris,

The 700 watt ICE module you see popping up in all the newer micros including the VHF700 is rated to 2.7 ohms, or 2 ohms if you employ current limiting circuitry, which I'm not.



I know you have a unique cab setup where you want 2 ohms, but I think 2.7 ohms will serve the large majority so I'm not pursuing anything to add 2 ohm capability.
Click to expand...

With no current limiting circuitry, is there a risk of damage to the amp....or speakers?
 
#943
N. Kentucky Bass said:
Not to mention the SL1200 is about 11-12 lbs and adding a 3602 is about 30 pounds total - not counting another 5 or so for a case to protect/transport the 3602 and a few pounds for extra cables/power cord. Kind of a no brainer: ditch the 3602 and gig the SL1200. That's why I sold my 3602. :D
Click to expand...

The reason I sold my PLX2402 was that it didn't have the slam or heft of my SWR stereo 800....the much argued subject

and certainly my old markbass heads do not have that....but I use them because they sound good and are light......
 
#944
murphy said:
The reason I sold my PLX2402 was that it didn't have the slam or heft of my SWR stereo 800....the much argued subject

and certainly my old markbass heads do not have that....but I use them because they sound good and are light......
Click to expand...

Regarding "slam factor," I do not detect much of a difference between the 3602 or the Reiner Studio 1200. Both are great. Both provide the juice. Both slam hard. It's when you add in all those other factors of convenience and performance (weight, etc.) that makes the S1200 a no brainer.
 
#949
murphy said:
The reason I sold my PLX2402 was that it didn't have the slam or heft of my SWR stereo 800....the much argued subject

and certainly my old markbass heads do not have that....but I use them because they sound good and are light......
Click to expand...


Was it an older PLX? The Stereo800 was a great amp no doubt, but the PLXs aren't lacking in any regard. The majority of perceived differences when people are comparing different quality power amps stem from differences in input impedance/sensitivity. A lot of folks (even some manufacturers) don't seem to understand this - that's why folks are always touting the CA9 as the king. It's a great amp, but a big part of the perceived heft comes from how easy it is to drive. That helps keep plenty of headroom and dynamics intact in the preamp rather than loading it down which will kill your top end and punch.

I went from a CA9 to the current gen PLX3602, and the 3602 has more slam, but I'm using gear that can drive it properly.

Same considerations apply to the differing brands of Class D modules.
 
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#950
Yes...an older PLX2402
and both amps driven by my Alembic F2b

But even my A/B Markbass heads were a compromise to the great sound of Alembic/SWR which was too heavy

Now you have me rethinking everything
 
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#951
murphy said:
Yes...an older PLX2402
and both amps driven by my Alembic F2b
Click to expand...

The input specs usually vary a bit between models, but for reference, the old 3602 (or whatever the big gun was) had something like 1.6v and 6k which is really tough to drive. The Alembic's output I believe is taken from the plate so it has a very high output impedance - those two together are probably as incompatible as they come!

Any preamp should have an output impedance <1k or it's pretty much a design fail - not only will you likely have issues driving power amps, but the tone will also be inconsistent due to loading. Some may call it mojo but it's not (unless you are a guitar player).
 
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#953
JGR said:
The input specs usually vary a bit between models, but for reference, the old 3602 (or whatever the big gun was) had something like 1.6v and 6k which is really tough to drive. The Alembic's output I believe is taken from the plate so it has a very high output impedance - those two together are probably as incompatible as they come!
Click to expand...

Yep. Here's a model I made of how resistances from 50K to 5K load an F2B:

F2B_loading5K_50K.jpg
 
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#954
Passinwind said:
Yep. Here's a model I made of how resistances from 50K to 5K load an F2B:

F2B_loading5K_50K.jpg
Click to expand...

Very cool! So folks, even if you have an amp like a CA9 that is easy to drive, you can see the effects loading has on high and low frequency response - better to tailor this type of thing in the voicing of the preamp so that you can get more predicable performance.
 
#955
JGR said:
Very cool! So folks, even if you have an amp like a CA9 that is easy to drive, you can see the effects loading has on high and low frequency response - better to tailor this type of thing in the voicing of the preamp so that you can get more predicable performance.
Click to expand...

I actually would have preferred to use input impedance instead of simple resistance, but a sweep like that would be a lot harder to do. I made that graph when I was helping someone figure out a MOSFET buffer circuit for their F2B clone project. Alembic themselves have recommended keeping loading at 10K or higher IIRC. Each trace represents a 5K ohm jump BTW.
 
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#956
Passinwind said:
I actually would have preferred to use input impedance instead of simple resistance, but a sweep like would be a lot harder to do. I made that graph when I was helping someone figure out a MOSFET buffer circuit for their F2B clone project. Alembic themselves have recommended keeping loading at 10K or higher IIRC. Each trace represents a 5K ohm jump BTW.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think 10k is pretty optimistic, 100k is probably more reasonable, and that pretty much rules out commercial power amps. :/
 
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#957
JGR said:
Yeah, I think 10k is pretty optimistic, 100k is probably more reasonable, and that pretty much rules out commercial power amps. :/
Click to expand...

This may just be one of those "close enough for rock and roll" deals for many people though, eh? Still, Alembic did address that issue with the F1-X. Link Removed
 
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