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Reliability and Tube vs. Solid State

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#21
we've had 2 cases where tube heads have proved their reliability to us on tour. One where a marshall tube guitar head fell out of the back of the van on the highway, and the second, where an orange tube head fell 9ft from the top of its 4x12, off the stage onto a concrete floor. in both cases, we picked them up, turned them on and they worked perfectly! not even a broken or loose tube!
 
#22
seamonkey said:
Reference the original question.
"Considering"
I was replying to it.

But just keep telling yourself that I'm trolling because I don't think tubes are the best thing since slided bread (not sure what came first)
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You're not trolling because you have a different view than mine. You're trolling because you're posting false info in a deliberate attempt to inflame this thread.
 
#25
I've found that I had to be very careful on gigs that have generators as a source of power, typically on outside festival type venues. Some older generators are not stable to me and I would never bring my previously owned all tube amps to these gigs and often specify in our contracts 'no generators'
I really love all tube amps, but have gotten away from them the last couple years.
 
#26
Well..an interesting topic indeed. Having just sold my svt cl, I did not like the lack of bottom end power, but I liked the general tone. Another thing I noticed, was as you turned it up, it distorted at fairly reasonable volumes. But this "growl" is what makes them attractive to some players.

Now I have had two other svt all tube amps. A 70's vintage, with matching 810 bottom and a svt II, bought new in the late 80's, playing through Hartke 15's.

I had problems with the 70's head, but I also took the stores word that it had been "gone thru" when I bought it used. So that one does not count. My svt II did blow the rail fuses multipal times durring one rehersal. Played fine afterwards.

If you like the tone, go for it. The only other thing to consider is the replacement of power tubes. I disagree with the "they will last 30 years" way of thinking. I belive in the, "replace them when they start to sound week" camp.

I have never had one problem with any s/s head that I have owned, other than a noisy fan. I have owned over 20 different s/s heads in my life...going back to the original, handmade,(at that time) GK's.

So, it's a matter of taste. Some people say the SVT CL, is not a "real" Ampeg and that it's built poorly. Well, I had my first one arrived with a loud hum, the replacement was fine. QC issues, IMO.

Bottom line, anything worth having is worth the trouble. There are thousands of SVT's in use with no problems. I think they are built very well personaly.
 
#27
As stated above, I think guitarists tend to run their amps a lot hotter...I've been using tube amps forever (well, over 20 years anyway), toured them etc.etc. I don't push them to extremes and they reward me with gobs of headroom and great sound. I had one tube arc in a Marshall back in the late 80's...and that's really been it as far as problems.

I think that's a pretty good track record. :D
 
#28
seamonkey said:
There is nothing supernatural about them or their sound.
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Funny, that's exactly how I feel about Solid State..wierd, huh?

Sometimes you really make me laugh. But you're right. there is no difference. High-end companies just make them for ****s and giggles. We're all just fooling ourselves folks...thanks for enlightenning us. Is your name Morpheus?

Love, Neo
 
#29
Psycho Bass Guy said:
You're not trolling because you have a different view than mine. You're trolling because you're posting false info in a deliberate attempt to inflame this thread.
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Nope - nothing false in my statement. Looks like your trolling by claiming I'm making false statements.

Tube owners walk in with a big smile on their faces after they've gone out and got their amps re-tubed. That's because their old tubes dimmed.

Looks like part of your day job is repairing tube amps? Tube amps need that maintenance. You might be bias by all that biasing.
 
#30
seamonkey said:
Nope - nothing false in my statement. Looks like your trolling by claiming I'm making false statements.

Tube owners walk in with a big smile on their faces after they've gone out and got their amps re-tubed. That's because their old tubes dimmed.

Looks like part of your day job is repairing tube amps? Tube amps need that maintenance. You might be bias by all that biasing.
Click to expand...


My EXACT feelings on this HOT (pun intened) topic also!
 
#31
Tubes DO have a way they "wear-out". It takes quite a while if you don't abuse them.

What happens is that the "emission material" on the cathode (not usually the same as the filament) degrades over time, and the tube loses "gain" , won't put out as much power, etc.

It takes years, and its slow to change. But it eventually happens.

Now, a solid state device has ways that it eventually fails also. It may take a little longer, and it also depends on how it is used. It depends on how it was made, and what kind of device it is. (Metallization migration, etc, etc).

I'll second the opinion that replacing the failed SS device will take more money thatn replacing the tube..... if your tech is honest.

But its pretty moot.... people have different opinions. If they "get it" about tubes, it isn't an issue, just maintenance.

If they prefer SS, failures may be fewer or longer apart, but they are also more expensive.....
 
#32
Jerrold Tiers said:
Tubes DO have a way they "wear-out". It takes quite a while if you don't abuse them.

What happens is that the "emission material" on the cathode (not usually the same as the filament) degrades over time, and the tube loses "gain" , won't put out as much power, etc.

It takes years, and its slow to change. But it eventually happens.

Now, a solid state device has ways that it eventually fails also. It may take a little longer, and it also depends on how it is used. It depends on how it was made, and what kind of device it is. (Metallization migration, etc, etc).

I'll second the opinion that replacing the failed SS device will take more money thatn replacing the tube..... if your tech is honest.

But its pretty moot.... people have different opinions. If they "get it" about tubes, it isn't an issue, just maintenance.

If they prefer SS, failures may be fewer or longer apart, but they are also more expensive.....
Click to expand...


As always..to the point and hard to argue with. ;)
 
#33
Jerrold Tiers said:
Tubes DO have a way they "wear-out". It takes quite a while if you don't abuse them.

What happens is that the "emission material" on the cathode (not usually the same as the filament) degrades over time, and the tube loses "gain" , won't put out as much power, etc.

It takes years, and its slow to change. But it eventually happens.

Now, a solid state device has ways that it eventually fails also. It may take a little longer, and it also depends on how it is used. It depends on how it was made, and what kind of device it is. (Metallization migration, etc, etc).

I'll second the opinion that replacing the failed SS device will take more money thatn replacing the tube..... if your tech is honest.

But its pretty moot.... people have different opinions. If they "get it" about tubes, it isn't an issue, just maintenance.

If they prefer SS, failures may be fewer or longer apart, but they are also more expensive.....
Click to expand...

Having just purchased an SVT-2 Pro new, I got the little "tube survival guide" pamphlet with the head. In there, it states that output tubes should be replaced every year, if not every 6 -8 months if used every day. I'm just curious who the target audience is for that message, since it seems that with the simplicity of the bias system on this amplifier, even a pretty uneducated person could keep bias in line over the years.
 
#34
BassIan said:
Having just purchased an SVT-2 Pro new, I got the little "tube survival guide" pamphlet with the head. In there, it states that output tubes should be replaced every year, if not every 6 -8 months if used every day. I'm just curious who the target audience is for that message, since it seems that with the simplicity of the bias system on this amplifier, even a pretty uneducated person could keep bias in line over the years.
Click to expand...

True, and amp techs where I live will charge a small fortune for a re-tube and bias, without even testing the tubes first. Bias drift isn't the only thing that happens as tubes age, though, and a lot of it has to do with how hard they're driven, and what kind of signal is pumped through them. I rehearse with one band through a '69 Bassman with power tubes older than me, but the volume knob hasn't seen the other side of the number 3, and it still sounds fine. I've retubed my guitar amp twice in as many years, though, because until recently all I used it for was distorted guitar at high volume.

The 6-8 month figure is the rule of thumb for high-gain guitar amp power tubes, and I suspect Ampeg prints that figure because a large chunk of their customers are going to be trying to keep up with their Mesa Recto-using bandmates on a regular gigging basis. Mileage varies greatly with usage.

IME, while the length of time between replacement/repair changes, SS power sections are susceptible to wear and tear based on their usage, as well.
 
#35
BassIan said:
Having just purchased an SVT-2 Pro new, I got the little "tube survival guide" pamphlet with the head. In there, it states that output tubes should be replaced every year, if not every 6 -8 months if used every day. I'm just curious who the target audience is for that message, since it seems that with the simplicity of the bias system on this amplifier, even a pretty uneducated person could keep bias in line over the years.
Click to expand...

Now this is a topic I PERSONALY know about. I had many "discussions" on another forum about this. There are people who will tell you, power tubes will last 30 years of hard playing...and they have the same tubes to prove it. Well, like the differences in high quality audio, I would have to hear it to belive it.


Mr. Tiers, has on other forums stated that 16 months "is not unreasonable" to change power tubes....however he also stated that this was an amp being played professionally..multiple times a week, at high output.

Now your, "tube guide" which has been out of print for a few years states some rather "conservative" tube replacement reccomendations.

Common sense is what I use for my guide. When the amp starts to loose it's punch and tone, replace the power tubes. The more and harder you use it will decide the outcome of when to replace the tubes.

Don't listen to "tubes last 30 years" bull. When you hear a difference, replace them. Most manufactures of power tubes state under "normal" operating..every 2-3 years.

Go on the net...do some research..then let YOUR ears guide you.
 
#36
I generally prefer the sound of tubes, and in my experience a well designed tube amp is extremely reliable, and as everyone says, easy to repair. Just look how many blackface fenders are still in daily use. A lot of solid state amps are junk--our local repair place won't even bother to repair some solid state equipment--it's a pain in the neck and would cost more than just replacing the gear. Well designed solid state gear is really robust, but there's just a huge amount of shoddy junk out there. I feel better with a well made tube amp than I would with, say, some Behringer head.

That being said, the size and weight advantages of solid state are just too great to ignore. I'm gigging with an Avalon U5 (solid state) and a AI focus SA, 600 watts and 3lbs. At my age (46) I'm just not into lugging heavy tube heads around, and while I think tubes sound better, for the music I play, they don't sound enough better to justify the extra weight.

If I were gigging on guitar, different story. If I could get away with lugging, say, a deluxe reverb, it'd be tubes all the way
 
#37
BassIan said:
Having just purchased an SVT-2 Pro new, I got the little "tube survival guide" pamphlet with the head. In there, it states that output tubes should be replaced every year, if not every 6 -8 months if used every day. I'm just curious who the target audience is for that message, since it seems that with the simplicity of the bias system on this amplifier, even a pretty uneducated person could keep bias in line over the years.
Click to expand...

Is this from the ampeg manual? Because if you look closely I think it says the tubes should be checked once a year, not replaced.
 
#38
metron said:
Is this from the ampeg manual? Because if you look closely I think it says the tubes should be checked once a year, not replaced.
Click to expand...

The manual says checked. The "Tube Survival Guide" does not.

I'm pretty comfortable using my tubes as long as nothing weird happens with them. Keeping bias in check should help out significantly.
 
#40
It's a solid state switching amp--not a tube amp. I was very skeptical at first but it's been solid and loud and sounds great. It weighs 3, maybe 3.5 lbs. The most recent model claims 800 watts at 4 ohms.

It doesn't look very manly up there though, just a little box like roughly the size of a cigar box with one knob. I love it.

Acoustic Image Focus
 
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