Reliability and Tube vs. Solid State

[Plain Old Me]

I'd say that as a group we came to a good conclusion- tubes require more maintainance but when an SS dies, you have to pay more than it costs to get it fixed. Of course, seamonkey will rattle on with how terrible tubes are, despite the knowledge of several tube techs who have posted on this topic before, because obviously seamonkey knows all when it comes to amplification.

 

[el_Kabong]

.....seamonkey knows all when it comes to amplification.

Nope, I do and I say tubes rule! KAAABONGGGGGG!!!!

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Nope - nothing false in my statement.

I guess you didn't write this then:

Filaments are like light bulbs and wear out.

or this:

They don't sound the same they did three month ago.

or this:

SS is more reliable and more consistent.

Looks like your trolling by claiming I'm making false statements.

Sure... whatever :scowl:

Tube owners walk in with a big smile on their faces after they've gone out and got their amps re-tubed. That's because their old tubes dimmed.

It just gets deeper and deeper with you. You claim to have repaired televisions, yet you make a statement that has absolutely NO basis in fact or reality. Anybody who could repair a TV would know otherwise. In case you haven't figured it out, I'm saying you're making things up.

What do you have against tubes anyway? A large majority of your recent posts have been to start flame wars about them, especially by telling lies. Why?

Looks like part of your day job is repairing tube amps? Tube amps need that maintenance. You might be bias by all that biasing.

MOST of my day job is repairing s/s, hence my appreciation for tubes is even greater.

My EXACT feelings on this HOT (pun intened) topic also!

I'm sorry. Was I talking to you? Did I address you in any manner that would necessitate your commentary on my personal demeanor? I didn't. Keep your peanut gallery comments to yourself. I neither care for nor need your approval. Your own well-documented dishonesty in this area precludes me from taking anything you have to say seriously anyway.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

You're certainly not pushing me any deeper in any corner. As stated, I have both solid state and tube amps. All I've done here is state that they're both viable amps when it comes to reliability.

Yup, if it has quality components and is looked after they will both be reliable (ie, if you have a tube amp and cheap out on the tubes, what do you expect!)

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

They don't sound the same they did three month ago.

Great understanding of electronics there matey

 

[BassIan]

Found the link:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

"Replace the output tube(s) before the performance degrades or the tubes fail completely. Replace the
tube(s) on a regular basis (at least once per year or as often as every 4 to 6 months if you play long and
hard every day)."

And other info:
"Tubes are made up of a number of fragile mechanical components that are vacuum-sealed in a glass envelope
or bubble. The tube's longevity is based on a number of factors which include how hard and often the
amplifier is played, vibration from the speakers, road travel, repeated set up and tear down, etc."

I don't give it much credence as the whole pamphlet is full of other myths about tubes.

Maybe since Ampeg disagrees with people in the forum, someone could write them and ask them to correct their pamphlets and extend the warranty on tubes.

Exactly - and my point was simply to ask Jerrold why it says those things in the manuals but he says other things here.

I have no doubt in my mind that my tubes won't "wear out" like light bulb filaments...

 

[specplyrz]

Exactly - and my point was simply to ask Jerrold why it says those things in the manuals but he says other things here.

I have no doubt in my mind that my tubes won't "wear out" like light bulb filaments...

When I got a svt cl recently, it came with the same tube guide. The guide is no longer in print, but is still included with their amps. One guy said that Ampeg was selling tubes back then(when the guides were in print) and thats one of the reasons that was included with the amp. And he further said that it helped Ampeg to sell tubes. That's why it says to replace your tubes sooner in that little guide.

I can see his point, it may of been a marketing tool at the time. Ampeg still sells power tubes, and that pamphlet is still included with tube amps.

As I have always said, let common sense be your guide. Replace your tubes when you hear a difference in your amp.

As I see it, you have some users who have had very good luck with tubes. They claim 30 yrs life, and I don't doubt this, but with todays tubes, (quality) and depending on your USEAGE of the amplifier...3-4 years seems more common these days for power tube life.

 

[seamonkey]

Great understanding of electronics there matey

Proven fact. Even Ampeg says so. They make the amps they should know.

 

[seamonkey]

Exactly - and my point was simply to ask Jerrold why it says those things in the manuals but he says other things here.

I have no doubt in my mind that my tubes won't "wear out" like light bulb filaments...

I've heard it many times - a tube head walks into a gig and says "I just got new tubes - my amp sounds just like it use to."

Myself, I'd rather not worry about the sound changing over time. You can't measure wear in a good SS amp. Speakers wear first. I don't need a tube sound (distortion/compression), but if I did it's easy to duplicate with emulators.

 

[BassIan]

Proven fact. Even Ampeg says so. They make the amps they should know.

Proven by what science? Can you refer us to this proof?

Ampeg (or any manufacturer) saying so in their literature is not proof. If you want to say something is proven here (where you are surrounded by extremely well-educated experts in THIS field), you need to supply the proof. Most of the people here who are educated in this field can prove otherwise. The problem is, that proof would be futile since it requires a clear understanding of the science.

You have your opinions, but it is clear to me that they are not based on fact or education on the topic.

 

[seamonkey]

Mesa says the same:
"...replace the power tubes (after 6 to 12 months of vigorous use)..."

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark III.pdf

 

[HotTubesGrooves]

I've heard it many times - a tube head walks into a gig and says "I just got new tubes - my amp sounds just like it use to."

Myself, I'd rather not worry about the sound changing over time. You can't measure wear in a good SS amp. Speakers wear first. I don't need a tube sound (distortion/compression), but if I did it's easy to duplicate with emulators.

So what? If you buy a tube amp you know that replacing tubes goes with the territory - they are a consumable item. As long as you change them before the sound deteriorates no biggie. Its so obvious I wonder why it hasnt sunk in yet...

A bass walks into a gig and says "I just got new strings - I sound just like I used to"... same thing as your statement above - what was your point again?

I play SS amps at present by the way, but dont have any preference. A good tube amp is a good tube amp, and visa versa. Ideally I'd like to have both.

 

[BassIan]

Mesa says the same:
"...replace the power tubes (after 6 to 12 months of vigorous use)..."

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark III.pdf

Mesa sells tubes.

 

[Mark Reccord]

I've heard it many times - a tube head walks into a gig and says "I just got new tubes - my amp sounds just like it use to."

Myself, I'd rather not worry about the sound changing over time. You can't measure wear in a good SS amp.

Whether you believe it or not, all solid state stuff drifts over time. It's not just the transistors, there are lots of other components that drift too. It's quite measureable.

Speakers wear first.

That depends on the speaker and how hard you drive it. Professional drivers have pretty long lifespans.

(I don't need a tube sound distortion/compression), but if I did it's easy to duplicate with emulators.

DSP technology has a ways to go yet before it can even come close to accurately modeling the idiosyncrasies of tube amps.

If you don't dig tubes, that's cool, but you might want to get yer facts straight.

EDIT: grammar

 

[WalterBush]

Mesa says the same:
"...replace the power tubes (after 6 to 12 months of vigorous use)..."

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20III.pdf

Not only do they sell tubes, they even insist that another major-name tube supplier isn't good enough! What's more, that manual is for a guitar amp that is famous for its overdriven sound, i.e. the sound it makes while the tubes are being used and abused heavily!

Advertising literature from a manufacturer, especially one with an interest in selling you their rebranded and possibly overpriced tubes, is not scientific evidence of anything but a company's desire to make a profit.

 

[seamonkey]

Proven by what science? Can you refer us to this proof?

Ampeg (or any manufacturer) saying so in their literature is not proof. If you want to say something is proven here (where you are surrounded by extremely well-educated experts in THIS field), you need to supply the proof, because most of these people are the providers of proof to the contrary.

You have your opinions, but it is clear to me that they are not based on fact or education on the topic.

You could easily prove me wrong, takes some scientific measurements of your amp over time and publish the charts.

There's a story of Carver tweaking an amp to mimic a tube reference design and the tube heads agreed. When he put the amp in production the tube heads compare the production model against the reference tube amp and said - "nope - not the same"
Carver had his original prototype, and sure enough it matched production units. The tube amp changed, but there was no convincing the tube heads. After this Carver build his own reference tube amp just to capitalize on the tube head mentality.

 

[HotTubesGrooves]

My active bass started to sound different when the battery got low.

Never buying one of those again! Sticking to good ol' passive.



Seriously though, this thread has got to the point where I cant help but think, "Who cares?"

 

[seamonkey]

Whether you believe it or not, all solid state stuff drifts over time. It's not just the transistors, there are lots of other components that drift too. It's quite measureable.



That depends on the speaker and how hard you drive it. Professional drivers have pretty long lifespans.




DSP technology has a ways to go yet before it can even come close to accurately modeling the idiosyncrasies of tube amps.

If you don't dig tubes, that's cool, but you might want to get yer facts straight.

EDIT: grammar

Do you have any reference charts to SS amp wear?

I'd be curious to see a double blind test on tube emulation. The vast majority of listeners would not be able to tell.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Proven fact. Even Ampeg says so. They make the amps they should know.

Proven by who? link me to a credited scientific journal and i'll believe you, most everything else on the net can be complete BS.

I know my amp doesnt change in sound at all every 3 months, that is a bull**** statement

Mesa says the same:
"...replace the power tubes (after 6 to 12 months of vigorous use)..."

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark III.pdf

That there is called marketing, glad to see it works on some idiots


Im not sure if you've said earlier in this thread or not, but have you ever actually used a tube amp for a long period of time?

 

[Mark Reccord]

Do you have any reference charts to SS amp wear?

I could ask you the same thing about tube amps.
The answer to both is 'no.' However, I certainly have observed that the bias current in solid state amps drifts over time. For example, I have a pair of amplifier modules here that I set up last year to draw 100mA at idle. Right now they're drawing 115mA..... Anyone who knows anything about electronics knows that component values drift.

I'd be curious to see a double blind test on tube emulation. The vast majority of listeners would not be able to tell.

If the test was done strictly within the linear ranges of the amps, you're probably right (depending on the amp). However, test them a little beyond their linear ranges and the differences will become apparent.