Reliability and Tube vs. Solid State

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Tubes are just as reliable as SS amps, and are easier to fix

I got an SVT-II earlier this year, and stupidly enough, didnt get it checked by a tech, one of the power tubes was dead and i must have ran it for quite a while with this dead tube (the amp was posted, so it could have been that, or it could have been the tube dying, they were the tubes that were originally in the amp when it was made (in '89) and the amp has been used as a workhorse and a rented amp that has spend whole days on big festivals (main stage at V2000 for one) )

As long as you look into it and you are getting a reliable amp, what matters more is not if its tube or SS, but the sound you prefer, i know i prefer tube, some people prefer SS, and some people prefer tube but go SS because tube amps are too heavey for them

 

[nysbob]

I've been running my SVT on the same set of power tubes for the past 8 or 9 years...I've got a spare set ready to go, but the last few times I've had it looked at, the tech said "it's happy, if you are, leave it alone." I've never had to run the volume past 4....

 

[seamonkey]

Having just purchased an SVT-2 Pro new, I got the little "tube survival guide" pamphlet with the head. In there, it states that output tubes should be replaced every year, if not every 6 -8 months if used every day. I'm just curious who the target audience is for that message, since it seems that with the simplicity of the bias system on this amplifier, even a pretty uneducated person could keep bias in line over the years.

Found the link:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

"Replace the output tube(s) before the performance degrades or the tubes fail completely. Replace the
tube(s) on a regular basis (at least once per year or as often as every 4 to 6 months if you play long and
hard every day)."

And other info:
"Tubes are made up of a number of fragile mechanical components that are vacuum-sealed in a glass envelope
or bubble. The tube's longevity is based on a number of factors which include how hard and often the
amplifier is played, vibration from the speakers, road travel, repeated set up and tear down, etc."

I don't give it much credence as the whole pamphlet is full of other myths about tubes.

Maybe since Ampeg disagrees with people in the forum, someone could write them and ask them to correct their pamphlets and extend the warranty on tubes.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Nice, me either, i didnt think anything was wrong with mine til i played an open A and the amp seemed to give it infinate sustain, so much so the note kept going and increasing in volume when i turned the volume all the way down on the bass!

checked the back, was burning out a bit on one of the tubes, then straight to the tech, the pre tubes were fine, but i changed them anyway for JJ's, tech said the amp is in perfect condition inside "mint" is the actual word he used , said i shouldnt have to see him for a few years to come, so, aye, 'mon the tubes (amps that is ) !

 

[seamonkey]

It's a solid state switching amp--not a tube amp. I was very skeptical at first but it's been solid and loud and sounds great. It weighs 3, maybe 3.5 lbs. The most recent model claims 800 watts at 4 ohms.

It doesn't look very manly up there though, just a little box like roughly the size of a cigar box with one knob. I love it.

Acoustic Image Focus

AI are just the tip of the iceberg. For example iAmps are also PWM but use a linear supply so it's much heavier. New Yamaha is PWM. PWM/Class-D/Class-T all are really the same.

There is nothing supernatural about these amps. They just amplify. The lowest distortion, lowest THD in the industry is a PWM amp.

If I was a tube guy I'd say something like "let us know in 30 years how the reliability is." These amps have been out for years and actually the first PWM amps were tube amps.

 

[specplyrz]

Found the link:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

"Replace the output tube(s) before the performance degrades or the tubes fail completely. Replace the
tube(s) on a regular basis (at least once per year or as often as every 4 to 6 months if you play long and
hard every day)."

And other info:
"Tubes are made up of a number of fragile mechanical components that are vacuum-sealed in a glass envelope
or bubble. The tube's longevity is based on a number of factors which include how hard and often the
amplifier is played, vibration from the speakers, road travel, repeated set up and tear down, etc."

I don't give it much credence as the whole pamphlet is full of other myths about tubes.

Maybe since Ampeg disagrees with people in the forum, someone could write them and ask them to correct their pamphlets and extend the warranty on tubes.

I argued till is was blue in the face with a poster about this. Use common sense. Most amplifier manufactures, Mesa, Marshal, Ampeg all say replace them within 2-3 years under NORMAL use.

Let your ears be your guide.

 

[Mark Reccord]

I argued till is was blue in the face with a poster about this. Use common sense. Most amplifier manufactures, Mesa, Marshal, Ampeg all say replace them within 2-3 years under NORMAL use.

Let your ears be your guide.

I have the original Magnavox coke bottles from my '76 SVT. They still sound better and make more power than any of the new sets I've bought. I do think that older tubes were made a bit better than the current crop though. I (gasp!!) totally agree with you that the time to change tubes is when the old ones stop sounding good.

 

[Mark Reccord]

AI are just the tip of the iceberg. For example iAmps are also PWM but use a linear supply so it's much heavier. New Yamaha is PWM. PWM/Class-D/Class-T all are really the same.

There is nothing supernatural about these amps. They just amplify. The lowest distortion, lowest THD in the industry is a PWM amp.

If I was a tube guy I'd say something like "let us know in 30 years how the reliability is." These amps have been out for years and actually the first PWM amps were tube amps.

PWM/class D/Tripath amps still have a few bugs to be worked out, especially in how they behave at and beyond their linear limits. That's important because virtually every amp will be in that situation sometime. They also have pretty poor power supply rejection, although Anagram Technologies has a new topology that apparently improves this over other Class-D amps.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to look at it at CES.

I like tube amps.
I like solid state amps.

I just like amps.

 

[specplyrz]

I have the original Magnavox coke bottles from my '76 SVT. They still sound better and make more power than any of the new sets I've bought. I do think that older tubes were made a bit better than the current crop though. I (gasp!!) totally agree with you that the time to change tubes is when the old ones stop sounding good.[/QUOTE

Did I just read that you totaly AGREE with me?!!....oh....my heart.......(sitting down).....

 

[Fealach]

This thread sure is a fun read. Why is it that the tube guys can spell better?

 

[PB+J]

Regarding PWM/Class D amps, I have yet to encounter any problems with the AI focus, except that i think it's a bit noisier than, say, the QSC PLX I was using before. It picks up hum/buzz more. Otherwise it's delivered a lot of power reliably and with good sound

 

[Fretless5verfan]

I (gasp!!) totally agree with you that the time to change tubes is when the old ones stop sounding good.

***!?

j/k

I actually agree too ( ). Replace the tubes when they NEED replacing. There's no need to keep cycling through them year after year.

As long you take care of your gear, both tubes and SS will serve you well for years to come .

 

[specplyrz]

***!?

j/k

I actually agree too ( ). Replace the tubes when they NEED replacing. There's no need to keep cycling through them year after year.

As long you take care of your gear, both tubes

You agree also!!!....where is my inhaler.....

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I have the original Magnavox coke bottles from my '76 SVT. They still sound better and make more power than any of the new sets I've bought. I do think that older tubes were made a bit better than the current crop though. I (gasp!!) totally agree with you that the time to change tubes is when the old ones stop sounding good.

I think that'll be true, because there was more of a market for them, so the good ones will have lasted, also the quality would have been an issue (more competition), so, surely they had better ones back then, and you've got the military grade ones that are bouncing about too!

 

[BurningSkies]

I think that'll be true, because there was more of a market for them, so the good ones will have lasted, also the quality would have been an issue (more competition), so, surely they had better ones back then, and you've got the military grade ones that are bouncing about too!

Not really a surprise...my little Fender guitar amp was built in 1965, I bought it from the original owner, who put a set of mullards in the pre section and RCA black plates in the power section...in the late 1960s. Its still got them and it still sounds great. All the guitarists I know try to borrow the amp for recording.

If you abuse your amp, it will die. SS or Tube. If you abuse your tubes, they'll die just the same. I keep my tubes running cool, I keep them undistorted. They'll probably last me 2 or 3 times the suggested 'every few years' change rule.

I like that seamonkey is now giving the 'what a tube guy should say' lines so that he can refute them before anyone even bothers to say things that we're not going to say anyway.

What I like more than that is the fact that if my amp does have a 'tube problem' live I can keep the amp working by pulling a pair and just keep playing. I've played enough bills where other bands have lost their SS heads due to failure and then have to borrow.

As a disclaimer, I have a SS bass head I used for 10+ years without a problem as well. I do think its pretty corny that people want to fight about what's A CHOICE.

-I like the way tubes sound better than solid state.
-I don't find with my x years of experience that they're any less reliable.
-Those of us who like tube amps aren't going to change our minds because someone tells us its old technology.

Once again, its like fighting over which sports team is better. Just stupid.

 

[specplyrz]

Once again, its like fighting over which sports team is better. Just stupid

Not at all...sports teams change week to week....amplifiers don't....sports teams are human beings with emotions and unknown outcomes...amps are electronics.....which are fairly dependable...turn them on and thay work....


but I value YOUR opinion..even if that opinion has no value....

 

[BurningSkies]

Once again, its like fighting over which sports team is better. Just stupid

Not at all...sports teams change week to week....amplifiers don't....sports teams are human beings with emotions and unknown outcomes...amps are electronics.....which are fairly dependable...turn them on and thay work....


but I value YOUR opinion..even if that opinion has no value....

Not really the case. People fight over teams for no good reason than the psychological connection the have. It doesn't usually have anything to do with the players, the scores, etc.

When it comes to amps, either you like the way one amp sounds or like the way another amp sounds. Neither is better or worse than the other, and neither amp is intrinsically better or worse than the other. The track record for repairs for tube vs solid state is fairly tenuous as well...I've never seen any published results, statistics or studies on ANY quantifiable data. From my recollection, I see plenty of people posting about their dead amps, and the bulk of those are solid state...but then, we don't really have a good guage at the statistic for users of solid state vs. tube either. If we did have this info, it would be easy to run a few processes, consult a few different distributions depending on how you wanted to parse the info, and then have solid data to accept or reject the hypothesis that one type of amp is superior than another.

Until that time its just everybody getting mad because someone likes the blue team and someone else likes the red team.

 

[seamonkey]

.
... gibberish deleted

I don't really care about swaying yours or any die hard tube head position. In fact I know my posting will only force you deeper into your niche.

But When someone posts a thread asking about SS verses tubes you bet I'm going to speak up so they get both sides of the story.

To help avoid these stupid snide comments going back and forth I figured out how to set the ignore list. I'll see how that works. I'll at least be able to get the valuable input and opinions of other members.

 

[PB+J]

geez--people really get over-invested in this stuff

 

[BurningSkies]

I don't really care about swaying yours or any die hard tube head position. In fact I know my posting will only force you deeper into your niche.

But When someone posts a thread asking about SS verses tubes you bet I'm going to speak up so they get both sides of the story.

To help avoid these stupid snide comments going back and forth I figured out how to set the ignore list. I'll see how that works. I'll at least be able to get the valuable input and opinions of other members.

In that case you won't see this.

You're certainly not pushing me any deeper in any corner. As stated, I have both solid state and tube amps. All I've done here is state that they're both viable amps when it comes to reliability.

I apologize if you've mistaken my request for some kind of quantifiable proof for the idea that tube amps are less reliable than solid state amps for, as you so eloquently state it, "gibberish". Rather, I guess I should have taken some off hand comment about old technology as some kind of meaningful commentary.