Resale....why such a hassle??

[soulman969]

But one of the bigger issues I am seeing is that the GC used section has plenty to choose from, and often lower pricing, and sometimes ridiculously high AND steals. And everyone knows they can buy the bass, have it shipped for $20, "test drive" it, then return it and get a full refund..

And this is yet another issue private sellers are up against.

If you're selling online via Reverb for example not only are you up against dealers much lower shipping costs but also 30 and 45 day return policies from some and with GC no cost at all for return shipping if the buyer drops it off at a brick and mortar store.

Private sellers can ill afford those kind of terms so price is about the only tool you have to compete which means taking less for whatever you're selling. There's a lot of competition and now that so many dealers are using Reverb as well that has also made it tougher for private sellers.

 

[Jscriv]

+1

We ourselves are the "lowball buyer" because that's where the market is at.

I got a FSR Precision in natural Ash off L.A. Craigslist a couple years ago. I told the seller, "I need another Fender like I need a hole in the head.... But I WANT a natural finish. Your listed price of $325 is not low enough to twist my arm. What's the lowest price you'll take? If you can do better, I'll take it." The guy came back at $265 and I drove right over.
Turns out he had just gotten a BEAUTIFUL Fullerton Precision, an had no need for a backup.

But more to my point, I could NOT have rationalized buying it without it being a value price that would assure me future flip if need be. And that's where a lot of guitar and bass owners are at -- you and me and other guys here, too.

You still let him make the price. You didn't come in at 125. And down, what 60 bucks wouldve been a reasonable offer in my book.

 

[Son of Wobble]

You still let him make the price. You didn't come in at 125. And down, what 60 bucks wouldve been a reasonable offer in my book.

Oh yeah, I meant to agree with you: If I had simply straight-up offered him $80, I would have deserved him to tell me, "Get loss, asshat."

 

[tjh]

It's a pain because buyers are much more educated now and it's easier to do research. Back in the 1990s it may not have been easy for the average person to find out what an MIM P bass is worth on the used market, now in a matter of seconds I can find hundreds of them to compare. Unless there is something unique about the instrument, you're probably not going to fetch a premium price for it.

… the caveat to this, Bob, is that there are also a LOT of people (buyers) that think they know what is going on … even on here, lets take that MIM P bass you mentioned … I see someone post (even on TB) asking the value of a MIM P bass, and without any other information people will spout off they aren't worth more than $200-$250, because they had one years ago and paid that … the trouble is, there are several 'eras' of MIM P basses, as well as several 'models' of MIM P basses … there are a lot of uniformed folk out there, especially away from forums such as TB … yes there are some MIM Standards in certain categories that I would not pay over $200-250 for, but there are also MIM Standards that I would pay in the $400 range, and also 'MIM' basses (model varieties) that would be a very good buy at $600+ … mention the moniker 'MIM' bass, and the uninformed assumed they know all about them, how about the higher end 'MIM' models? … I have had people contact me on equipment for sale, that I had to respectfully start an education process of what they are looking at, without appearing to 'hype' just for the reason of a sale … usually I send them a variety of information, suggest they look it over, and get back to me if they still have an interest … what they come away with, is usually a much better realization of the market, and understanding of 'what' and 'why' …

 

[toddbooster]

Vintage isn't moving either. High dollar 60's instruments just go to the shop on consignment like they're going into a retirement home. Just hanging on the wall forlornly for months, years even. Nobody's buying this stuff anymore.

 

[Son of Wobble]

Just hanging on the wall forlornly for months, years even. Nobody's buying this stuff anymore.

Are you being hyperbolic, or is it really that dead in Toronto?

 

[tjh]

In general, my stuff sells rather quickly, and often with alternative buyers waiting in case it falls through … I go out of my way to make it attractive to anyone looking for an item of this type, and price it at a point that makes it even more attractive ... if something is not selling for an extended period of time, it is usually for one or more of a few reasons, no matter what the market is …

… unrealistic expectations of value, maybe because of 'modifications' that the seller calls 'upgrades' and expects a higher return on …
… the piece is priced too close to the original pricing, where one can buy new with potential for return/making payments/warranties
... the item simply no longer has any demand/desire
… there is something wrong with the sellers marketing strategy, such as a poor quality listing, poor description, poor picture(s), poor grammar, or even poor choice of where the listing is made
… and finally, if it is sitting for an extended period of time, receiving no offers, except what is perceived as 'low-balls', and none of the above are the issue, it is priced too high in its current condition, for the current used market … it does not matter what you (the seller) paid, or what you saw someone else's sell for 'a while back' … a good condition product, displayed properly, from a reputable seller, and priced at the point comparable pieces are currently moving (or better yet just under), will always sell in a reasonable amount of time …

… the killer to most sellers, probably more than any other time in history, is the cost associated with transporting a sale item from one party to another … unfortunately, that is something out of our control, and can only be countered with cautious buying by more 'informed' and scrutinizing buyers on what they like/want/need, so that they will be less likely to want/need to turn their purchase over in the near future … and for sellers listing in areas/methods that will eliminate the shipping factors, and allow pricing more attractively ...

JMHO … as always ​

 

[Hambone70]

IMHO, new equipment is (generally) superior to used, there are incredible values on new stuff out there, I get a factory warranty, and I know the history of the instrument (none, I hope!).

That's not to say that I'll pass up a used bargain after sufficient research. I recently bought an outstanding trumpet from eBay for a very good price.

I'm a terrible haggler. I hate selling. So I try to make sure I plan on keeping what I buy. It forces me to research the market, and stops me buying on impulse. I learn to be content with my purchases. Then I'm not at the mercy of the depreciation monster!

 

[soulman969]

Guess it’s all a matter of perception. If someone were to come in 50% below the asking price as their opening bid I’d be more inclined to think that either the buyer (or the seller) has no idea what the item should be selling for in the current market.

I generally don’t waste time talking to people who come across as either being clueless, or who fancy themselves as real “wheeler dealers.”

But that’s me.

And I would agree. IMHO 50% below asking price is an offer I would ignore rather than even counter.

If that's a buyer way of trolling me to see just how low I'll go it's wasting my time trying to be "crafty".

IMHO if you're a serious buyer and the asking price is in the ball park step up with a reasonable offer and negotiate from there. I know for a fact buyers have lost out on good deals simply by trying to be too "cute" about it.

Reasonable negotiation is never a waste of time but low balling an initial offer is to me since I have never once made a sale to anyone whose done that yet and between Ebay, Reverb, and CL I've made roughly 80 sales.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

Oh I lowball, but I’m polite about it eBay is still probably the best way to get a decent value for gear, without dealing with the ridiculousness. Haven’t used reverb myself but I’ve heard good things.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

I'd like to thank the people with snippy/condescending comments.......betcha I know your negotiation tactics! No matter what you say...offering 25% of fair market asking price is plain out disrespectful. Sorry

It's an offer. They are free to reject.

Not my way of doing it so don't blame me.

My way detailed earlier in this one.

 

[AudioDwebe]

Selling definitely bites (at least for me).

It's gotten to the point where I have to come up with the minimum I'd be willing to let a bass go for, and then take an additional 20% off. Subtract PP fees and shipping plus insurance on top of that makes GC an option.

Sad, really, since GC tends to hose you pretty good.

 

[soulman969]

You hit on a good point, which is that to a player, there is a degree to which "value" of an instrument transcends dollar amount.

Well said. There are truly "players" instruments out there that for many reasons appeal far more to more experienced players than to the average "bedroom bassist", and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. I play far more often in my own den these days than on stage.

The problems is CL is not exactly loaded with that kind of buyer. There are far more home or hobby players than performing musicians shopping there, or at least that has been my experience, and a better and/or upgraded "players bass" may not be appreciated by that type of buyer.

I've had this experience before.

 

[Maynjo]

I agree there are some people out there who like to really low ball people, but I agree more that there are just too many sellers that don't know what their bass is actually worth and try to get way too much for it. That being said, if I see the seller asking for way too much and what I think it's worth is too far off I don't even bother with them. If it's something I really like I'll just keep my eye on it until the seller comes to his senses and lowers the price.

 

[soulman969]

Well, you’re wrong. *Asking price* is set by the seller. The value of what you’re selling is set by what someone is actually willing to pay for the item. And there’s the crux of this thread... too many sellers ask too much (then complain when it doesn’t sell or they get lower offers, lowball excluded). Value is influenced by many factors, but ultimately is just what a buyer is willing to pay.

LOL, this debate about who sets MV is kinda like those old Miller Lite commercials. We always have the "less filling" buyer theory vs the "taste great" seller theory at it's root.

Value is a nebulous word in this case that will often have two different points of view but I do agree that quite often sellers will place a higher "value" on an item than their buyer.....but not always. Value is all about perception and sometimes both will agree and a deal gets done that both are pleased with. I've done some of those.

Market value itself is always defined as what a buyer is willing to pay and a seller is willing to accept. Without a bi-lateral agreement no transaction would ever take place. So in reality both set the market just as happens when buying real estate or trading in the stock market and it's always in a state of flux with prices moving up and down.

This is how I've experienced it.

 

[jazzyitalian]

It's a barter-type environment these days. People will price a bit higher than what they want to get with the expectation that the people who approach them will make lower offers. That's what it is. A back and forth haggle. And if you dared to say, "Price is Firm" or "No offers" you might not get any bites on your gear. Even if you your asking price is below book. So we all wind up having to play that hi/lo game. eBay tends to be viewed a bit more different. Dealers can put up a buy only item and will still sell them because they offer return policies and warrantees.

 

[keith1r]

Always ask for more than what you want so the lowball won’t be so low

 

[jeff62]

I agree there are some people out there who like to really low ball people, but I agree more that there are just too many sellers that don't know what their bass is actually worth and try to get way too much for it. That being said, if I see the seller asking for way too much and what I think it's worth is too far off I don't even bother with them. If it's something I really like I'll just keep my eye on it until the seller comes to his senses and lowers the price.

Amen to clueless sellers! I recently noticed a restored, but non original early 70s Ric here in the TB classifieds. Now, I get it. Restoring a bass like that costs some $$$. But the Owner was asking a price that would have bordered on “my bass is all original in good condition” dollars. He was looking to recoup his investment, clearly a labor of love. But also clearly the wrong strategy.

Personally, I like the idea of a restored bass because then I don’t need to worry about something “original”. After sending a note admiring the work and asking if a reasonable offer might be considered (mentioning no price) given the non originality, he banned me from communicating (Leave conversation, don’t accept future messages) with him in the future. I found out by trying to follow up on my first message some days later.

Real head scratcher, that one. That bass didn’t sell here nor did it sell on Reverb. Gosh though, you’ve got something for sale... have a discussion?

 

[dennis james]

the whole industry is in a slump. sales of new guitars are way down too. a lot of kids would rather play computer games than to put in the time and effort required to learn an instrument. maybe the next jimi Hendrix or eddie van halen needs to come along to rekindle interest.

 

[jeff62]

LOL, this debate about who sets MV is kinda like those old Miller Lite commercials. We always have the "less filling" buyer theory vs the "taste great" seller theory at it's root.

And I’ve just figured out the soulman and I are both old enough to remember that commercial.