Return of Sunn?

[ardgedee]

Anybody know what the warranty is on their new products?

"Product coverage remains in effect until the death of the Sunn" does not inspire confidence.

 

[BTL]

Anybody know what the warranty is on their new products?

Here's the Mission Engineering Warranty page, and I'd expect something similar for Sunn:

Warranty - Mission Engineering

 

[daveman50]

I still have my warranty card from the purchase of my Sunn Concert Bass rig in 1973. It's never needed service.

 

[D.M.N.]

Just cause I haven't seen it mentioned, I believe those prices are the MSRP or whatever it's called, and the price you'll see them for sale at will be lower. That said, it is all US made, and that's not cheap these days. As for the cab power ratings, most of my Sunn 2000s cabs have D or K-140s, so at max are rated at 150w, and they are plenty loud, never had any issue with them. Maybe don't run a 1000w head into it, but for the most part I think they'll be more than adequate if Eminence nailed the JBL sound.

 

[Wasnex]

Apart from all the price/value discussions, the fact that they are using tube rectification for a 65-watt amp sounds interesting. I really wonder how it would affect the final tone of the amp, particularly at relatively higher volumes. We had already discussed the tube rectification in bass amps at the following link…

Tube rectification in bass amps?

A tube rectifier will drop off a bit voltage and have more sag. This will lower the max power slightly and make the amp a bit more squishy. However, the OEM rectifier tube in this amp was a GZ34 which has less sag and a lower voltage drop than most, so it's probably not going to make a huge difference. AFAIK, a single GZ34 should be about right for a 65W amp.


I have a 200W amp that is switchable between solid state and a pair of 5U4G rectifiers.
The 5U4G more internal resistance...so more of a voltage drop and more sag. This amp runs 540V on the plates in solid state and 500V on the plates with the pair of 5U4Gs. If I modded it to run GZ34 I think the plate voltage would go 520V-525V.

Ideally this amp would switch the bias supply as well...but it doesn't. It's currently biased for solid state, but not as hot as the factory setting. When I run it on the tube rectifiers it loses quite a bit of headroom and gets more compressed and bloomy and it a bit fuller and thicker down low. IMHO it seems like about 120W on solid state and about a 60W on the rectifier. If I adjust the bias for the tube rectifier, the differences becomes much, much smaller. I think the power probably jumps up to about 85W or so. The switch is actually labelled half and full power.

You can buy solid state rectifiers that plug into a tube rectifier socket. I believe you can pure solid state or versions that have a bit of extra resistance so the perform closer to a tube rectifier.

 

[Wasnex]

I was under the impression most amps provided full range frequency response down to 20 Hz

Sorry...I don't think this is accurate.

Here is a plot from the power amp of a vintage SVT...almost meets your expectations.
Confused: The Ampeg SVT sound and the low-mids thing | Page 5 | TalkBass.com
REF: Confused: The Ampeg SVT sound and the low-mids thing

Channel 1 Flat (not even close)
Confused: The Ampeg SVT sound and the low-mids thing | Page 5 | TalkBass.com
Confused: The Ampeg SVT sound and the low-mids thing

Mesa Strategy Eight:88 Voicing Filters (3 is labeled flat) (not even close)

REF: Amp Lab: Mesa Boogie Strategy | Bass Gear Magazine

 

[Wasnex]

That all makes sense. I'd also assume that the 65 Hz number isn't a hard cutoff, but a roll-off start point (at who know what slope).

Keep in mind it's a 65W amp. Low frequencies tend to eat up power fast.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I wish they would resurrect the Coliseum Bass head, solid state 320 watts @ 2ohms, and maybe the 1x18 bass cabinet as well.

 

[monsterthompson]

Keep in mind it's a 65W amp. Low frequencies tend to eat up power fast.

My comment was in reference to the Beta Bass head which is 100w. Still, I certainly see your point about the power consumption of low frequency information.

In your other comment I’m assuming you were listing tube heads because of the tube heads in the OP. Still, I see the point and appreciate the education. It’s definitely out of my depth.

 

[Wasnex]

My comment was in reference to the Beta Bass head which is 100w. Still, I certainly see your point about the power consumption of low frequency information.

In your other comment I’m assuming you were listing tube heads because of the tube heads in the OP. Still, I see the point and appreciate the education. It’s definitely out of my depth.

I listed the response plots for the tube heads because I knew where to find them.

I guess I am sort of ironic....I have more of a fascination with tube heads, even though I actually prefer solid state. I own around 50 amps and about 80% would be considered all tube.

My guess is my Mesa M9 Carbine with the bass control pulled has the most low end extension. I have a pair EV TL405 cabs that are supposed to have usable response down into the mid 20hz range. As @agedhorse mentioned (and IMHO), there is a lot of nasty, unmusical noise down in the sub bass range.

 

[monsterthompson]

I listed the response plots for the tube heads because I knew where to find them.

I guess I am sort of ironic....I have more of a fascination with tube heads, even though I actually prefer solid state. I own around 50 amps and about 80% would be considered all tube.

My guess is my Mesa M9 Carbine with the bass control pulled has the most low end extension. I have a pair EV TL405 cabs that are supposed to have usable response down into the mid 20hz range. As @agedhorse mentioned (and IMHO), there is a lot of nasty, unmusical noise down in the sub bass range.

Gotcha.
Yeah, I know some TB folks will chatter about various cabs not being able to produce the 31 Hz of a low B (or sometimes even lower). I haven’t come across threads with similar complaints about amps having a floor on frequencies, but I have seen threads mentioning fixed HPF filters in amps for the purpose of cutting out that low end noise. Similarly, I’ve seen several mixing tutorials that talk about how the kick generally occupies the sub 100 Hz range so bass will get filtered around there to make space.

I get what you’re driving at and appreciate the real world examples.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I wish they would resurrect the Coliseum Bass head, solid state 320 watts @ 2ohms, and maybe the 1x18 bass cabinet as well.

View attachment 5146668

Where'e you come across that pic of my rig?

 

[DJ Bebop]

Where'e you come across that pic of my rig?

From your last tour program.

 

[D.M.N.]

I wish they would resurrect the Coliseum Bass head, solid state 320 watts @ 2ohms, and maybe the 1x18 bass cabinet as well.

View attachment 5146668

I believe there was mention of making the Coliseum eventually, though it's unclear if they were referring to the Coliseum PA head, ala Leslie West in Mountain, or the later solid state Coliseum heads

 

[agedhorse]

Gotcha.
Yeah, I know some TB folks will chatter about various cabs not being able to produce the 31 Hz of a low B (or sometimes even lower). I haven’t come across threads with similar complaints about amps having a floor on frequencies, but I have seen threads mentioning fixed HPF filters in amps for the purpose of cutting out that low end noise. Similarly, I’ve seen several mixing tutorials that talk about how the kick generally occupies the sub 100 Hz range so bass will get filtered around there to make space.

I get what you’re driving at and appreciate the real world examples.

It is NOT common to high pass the bass around 100Hz, regardless of what some mixing tutorials might suggest. There is a lot of bad info out there by folks with virtually no qualifications, especially in the church audio world.

 

[Sapatown]

The price of their tubes are wild.
I can get a Ampeg SVT VR locally for 1500 dollars

 

[Haroldo]

I was all exited until seeing the pricing.

Going by that, I expect the Model T to be something like $5749.31.

And you'll only be a be able to get in black.

 

[6thplanet]

Funny how one man's 65W is another man's 500W.

 

[Jefenator]

As I mentioned before, I probably wouldn't buy the new 200s for $3200.
But I probably wouldn't sell my vintage one for $3200, either.
Actually, if someone did offer me that, I'd probably take it - then turn around and buy the new one.
Similar dimensions. The weight spec is different, though. (Pretty sure mine is more than 32#.)
I wonder what the differences are underneath the hood?

 

[badinage]

I wonder if this means my Model T's "Personal Lifetime Warranty" is back in force. I was disappointed when I was told it had expired, and despite indiscretions past sane limits as a routine in the past, neither of us has yet to personally expire.