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Return of Sunn?

#162
agedhorse said:
It is NOT common to high pass the bass around 100Hz, regardless of what some mixing tutorials might suggest. There is a lot of bad info out there by folks with virtually no qualifications, especially in the church audio world.
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Anyone that high passes a bass guitar at 100Hz is either working with a very incapable PA or someone you don’t want to hire to do FOH.
 
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#163
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#164
Lovep said:
"In 1985, Fender purchased Sunn. Many longtime devotees who had grown accustomed to the Sunn sound were upset by the move and worried that Fender would underutilized the company. Sadly, these fears were largely justified."

Makes me wonder what Sunn would have been today if Fender never got involved...
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A little company of old guys, trying to make it through all the down times. Maybe still trying to make this stuff being released today.

:)
 
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#166
micguy said:
Anyone that high passes a bass guitar at 100Hz is either working with a very incapable PA or someone you don’t want to hire to do FOH.
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...he says to a guy involved with bass amp designs where HPF controls go up to 125Hz and 150 Hz :bag:
j/k.
kinda (mostly curious why 100 is too dang high, but the controls go higher. clearly they are knobs and don't have to be turned to the max)
 
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#167
micguy said:
Anyone that high passes a bass guitar at 100Hz is either working with a very incapable PA or someone you don’t want to hire to do FOH.
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I actually run my amp with HPF kinda high like that when playing sometimes. I use it as a tone-shaping thing, trying to recreate the sound of playing through a Fender Super Reverb ala Carol Kaye. On mic, it sounds great recorded. Old school kinda thing.

:)
 
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#168
DJ Bebop said:
I actually run my amp with HPF kinda high like that when playing sometimes. I use it as a tone-shaping thing, trying to recreate the sound of playing through a Fender Super Reverb ala Carol Kaye. On mic, it sounds great recorded. Old school kinda thing.

:)
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Yeah, I'm assuming a few users probably like the extra range for "less conventional" tone shaping. As I mentioned, it is a knob and it doesn't have to go to the max all the time. If it doesn't cost anything extra to extend the range of the filter and a few users might appreciate the option, then I could see why it is what it is.

I definitely appreciate the insight into the design. I clearly had some ignorant and incorrect assumptions about amps, so getting a bit of schooling is helpful.
 
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#169
monsterthompson said:
Yeah, I'm assuming a few users probably like the extra range for "less conventional" tone shaping. As I mentioned, it is a knob and it doesn't have to go to the max all the time. If it doesn't cost anything extra to extend the range of the filter and a few users might appreciate the option, then I could see why it is what it is.

I definitely appreciate the insight into the design. I had some ignorant and incorrect assumptions about amps, so getting a bit of schooling is helpful.
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It's not something I do all the time but sometimes and I like having that option.

I like the fact that out of one amp I can get a lot of different sounds almost like having different amps.

20230123_123900.jpg

:)
 
#170
Lovep said:
"In 1985, Fender purchased Sunn. Many longtime devotees who had grown accustomed to the Sunn sound were upset by the move and worried that Fender would underutilized the company. Sadly, these fears were largely justified."

Makes me wonder what Sunn would have been today if Fender never got involved...
Click to expand...

Fender operated Sunn and supported the products for almost 20 years. Most folks complaining about Fender ruining the company fail to realize that they operated the company almost as long as all of the previous owners combined.

monsterthompson said:
...he says to a guy involved with bass amp designs where HPF controls go up to 125Hz and 150 Hz :bag:
j/k.
kinda (mostly curious why 100 is too dang high, but the controls go higher. clearly they are knobs and don't have to be turned to the max)
Click to expand...

Because the amps are not just bass amps, but are used for other applications as well (like cello, piccilo, bajo sexto, guitarron) which can benefit from a higher HPF setting. Also, for some specific applications like percussive bass, a higher HPF can be beneficial depending on the player's taste.

Another application is in rooms with a lot of LF build-up, a higher HPF may make the difference between acceptable bass and a hot mess.
 
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#171
monsterthompson said:
...he says to a guy involved with bass amp designs where HPF controls go up to 125Hz and 150 Hz :bag:
j/k.
kinda (mostly curious why 100 is too dang high, but the controls go higher. clearly they are knobs and don't have to be turned to the max)
Click to expand...
Depends on the slope too. A cutoff frequency of 100Hz and a slope of 6 dB/octave would still allow the lowest range of a 4-string bass to be audible, if a little quieter.
 
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#172
agedhorse said:
Because the amps are not just bass amps, but are used for other applications as well (like cello, piccilo, bajo sexto, guitarron) which can benefit from a higher HPF setting. Also, for some specific applications like percussive bass, a higher HPF can be beneficial depending on the player's taste.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I wasn’t aware that the D800+ and TT800 would have consumers using the amps in those applications. I know you’ve designed many more amps, but those current models were what came to mind.
 
#173
monsterthompson said:
Interesting. I wasn’t aware that the D800+ and TT800 would have consumers using the amps in those applications. I know you’ve designed many more amps, but those current models were what came to mind.
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Yes, there are a lot of bass like applications out there that have used amps I have designed, often because of specific features like the variable HPF. The ShuttleMax was one such amp that suited electric/upright players or upright/cello (with an AB switch) and the variable LF Boost function included some disguised variability in the HPF.
 
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#174
J Wilson said:
I learned the hard way to never put myself in a spot with too little power, an amp that was straining and breaking up trying to keep up on loud stages in my day.

The experienced grownups in the room know that with a big amp, you can match levels as needed without bowling over everything around you. I'm a charter member of the Big Amp Turned Up to 3 Club, where it's calm, cool, and collected and working well within it's design limits.

You don't want a little amp whipped half to death just to get through a job, which is why I've got little use for a 100w amp, especially as with five-string, the occasional low C's and D's require more amp and more speaker.
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Hey @J Wilson, I'm right there with you from long ago. Happened to me in 1971 when I started touring with a nightclub group playing 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year for 3-years. We'd typically play 2-weeks at each location before packing up and driving 200 to 600 miles away for the next gig. I had a '65 Jazz Bass and a 1966 Fender Bassman amp. That's a 50-watt all-tube amp with the first year of the big cabinet that still just had two 12's in it. Was great for high school and college but when the guitarist and the keys both in the touring group both bought 120-watt Vox Super Beatle amps, I was hopelessly buried. Couldn't turn it even a hair past 7 on the dial without farting out those 12" Jensen speakers. With my volume at #7, the guitarist, keys, and drums were all asking me to turn up and my amp had nothing more to give.

Then when we came into Lincoln, NB to play a large club (Occupancy>850) I went shopping at a place call Hospe Music. Came out of there with a Standel MCIIb/SAM30b piggy back amp. It used a 215 bass reflex powered speaker cab and was ungodly loud and clear. Couldn't turn it above #3 indoors. In the wide open spaces outdoors, I could turn it up to #5 as long as there weren't any buildings close by to reflect it. So 1971 is when I became a member of the "big amp turned up to 3 club". Wasn't actually a tall amp but was deep and wide because of the reflex design and the 4 round ports mounted vertically alongside the two 15's. Never had a problem being heard with that.

DanAndSteve_600x691.jpg


I currently have two 800-watt amps. One is the WT500 upgraded to 800-watts bridged into 8Ω that lived on David Nordschows speaker cab design desk from 1999 until he left Eden in 2009. Using that into my DNS-410 cab by DNA, I get told to turn down at outdoor music festivals if I turn it up to 10:30 (a little above what would be #4). Indoors...9 o'clock or what would be #3 on the dial usually does it. I also have a DNA-800 amp that I bought in 2021. It puts out only 400-watts into either my DNS-210 or my DNS-410, which are both 8Ω cabs, but will put out all 800-watts if I decide to use both at once. I primarily use it for indoor venues with just one cab because it only weighs 4.8-lbs and will drive either of my cabs more than loud enough in any indoor venue.


1_709x1082.jpg
 
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#178
micguy said:
I assume "disguised variability" means you put some "sanity" in it - "yes, you can have a 10 dB boost at 100 Hz, but not at 30Hz"
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Yes, but limited to 6dB at any frequency for added sanity ;)
 
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