Reverb increasing seller fees

[monsterthompson]

When business is down, raising prices is exactly the opposite of what a business should do

Not necessarily. You need to understand the buyer and seller base. It is very possible that there are people who are less sensitive to price fluctuations, who will hardly notice a certain amount of price increase, or won't be bothered by it. If a person is in the market for a second or third Spector, F Bass, or Dingwall, then chances are that they have disposable income for luxury items and might not change their behavior, and continue buying. Sellers know this.

This is a very different demographic from the buyer/seller looking for a transaction on a basic Boss, Behinger, or Mooer pedal. If the pedal group is that sensitive to price and stops selling, then the Reverb transaction count will drop along with the gross sales numbers. However, if the boutique bass group still buys and sells, then raising the fee/price might be the right business decision to make to offset the lost pedal sales. We just don't have the data to know where the price points are and the sales volumes in each class. Someone at Reverb has that data, and probably did the analysis.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

You're one of the many people that keep saying "sell it here, on TB". What you are missing is that many bass players are not just bass players, they are musicians.

I sell basses, guitars, effects, recording gear, pro sound, amps, accessories, etc..

I love talkbass, but they don't have the exposure to help me move a fraction of my gear. I'm stuck with eBay, Reverb, and Craigslist for all non-bass gear. And, even if you are in a big city like me, you are unlikely to get the exposure on Craigslist that you will get on Reverb and eBay.

A 5% fee isn't bad for the exposure you need.

 

[amper]

I find it fascinating that people think this faceless corporation owes them something. We live in a capitalist society, and you are free to take your business somewhere else. Or better yet, you are free to start your own Reverb-like business. Call it "Tremolo", or "Vibrato".

We are such an entitled bunch of whiners, that many people feel like Reverb is some kind of social service that should have their profits capped. You wouldn't want the profits capped on your business, but you feel like Reverb should have their wings clipped.

If there is a better option than Reverb, you are 100% free to use that option. If there isn't a better option than Reverb, then be grateful that they are still providing you the best service available.

OMG, dude, that much salt is going to get your blood pressure up. You seem to have an extremely naive and tenuous grasp of economics, but OK, let's address your "arguments", such as they are:

"You are free to start your own business."
Barriers to entry much? I'm going to go ahead and guess that you've never actually started, much less run, a successful business, let alone one in a market with two behemoth corporations that effectively constitute a duopoly. Incidentally, I founded the first 100% broadband end-user ISP in America in the mid-1990s, and ran my own technology consultancy for over a decade. This is an area in which I have substantial expert knowledge.

Reverb itself was founded in 2013 by billionaire software executive David Kalt, who purchased Chicago Music Exchange as a vanity business after selling his options trading company to Charles Schwab in 2011 for $1B USD. That's the kind of capital it takes to enter a market dominated by eBay, and undercut their prices while offering demonstrably fewer options to the user.

Many of us flocked to Reverb only because eBay was so egregiously craptastic to their sellers. As with all monopolists, now that Reverb has successfully divided the marketplace, they are flexing their muscle exactly the same way eBay did. They know that in the short term, no one is going to offer any real competition to them.

"We are such an entitled bunch of whiners."
OK, Karen. OK, Boomer.

"Reverb is some kind of social service that should have their profits capped."
Strawman much? Literally no one said any such thing.

"Be grateful that they are still providing you the best service available."
That sounds an awful lot like "shut up, or I'll give you something to *really* cry about". Creeptastic, and demonstrably incorrect. They are not, in fact, "providing the best service available", when they are arbitrarily raising prices by 42.8% in one blow.

There have been no substantial changes to market conditions that could possibly warrant such a price increase. This is nothing more than a naked money grab enabled by the fact that Reverb and eBay effectively constitute a duopoly in a captive market. In fact, market conditions, by any sane stretch of the imagination, demand a price *decrease*, in order to incentivise more business. This is Econ 101, supply and demand basics.

What is obviously going on here is that Reverb's sales figures have taken a gigantic hit due to the fact that, thanks to the global economy being shut down by about 50% (or more), comparatively fewer people have the cash to buy non-essential goods, and quite a few of us are desperate to sell to make rent and utility payments. And so, in order to maintain their income stream, they have elected to raise the price on the fewer transactions traversing their systems. It's a move that clearly their customers dislike, and that's not a good sign for Reverb's future profitability.

Monopoly power is not "capitalism", it's a *failure* of capitalism. But, hey, keep licking that boot for more salt.

 

[BunchyMutt]

I find it fascinating that people think this faceless corporation owes them something. We live in a capitalist society, and you are free to take your business somewhere else. Or better yet, you are free to start your own Reverb-like business. Call it "Tremolo", or "Vibrato".

We are such an entitled bunch of whiners, that many people feel like Reverb is some kind of social service that should have their profits capped. You wouldn't want the profits capped on your business, but you feel like Reverb should have their wings clipped.

If there is a better option than Reverb, you are 100% free to use that option. If there isn't a better option than Reverb, then be grateful that they are still providing you the best service available.

Whining about whiners. You are 100% free to leave TB, but if you don’t feel like there’s an equal or better option be grateful that we are providing the best TB experience available.

 

[Alkali Ike]

OK, which one of you stuck this into Wikipedia??

Reverb.com - Wikipedia

Reverb charges a 3.5% commission fee to the seller and a small percent for credit card processing. This was later jacked up to 5% during a world health and economic crisis to hurt musicians the most they could.[21]

 

[jdthebassman]

There’s no reason to use Facebook.

Why not I’ve had very good success on it

 

[foothilla]

OMG, dude, that much salt is going to get your blood pressure up. You seem to have an extremely naive and tenuous grasp of economics, but OK, let's address your "arguments", such as they are:

"You are free to start your own business."
Barriers to entry much? I'm going to go ahead and guess that you've never actually started, much less run, a successful business, let alone one in a market with two behemoth corporations that effectively constitute a duopoly. Incidentally, I founded the first 100% broadband end-user ISP in America in the mid-1990s, and ran my own technology consultancy for over a decade. This is an area in which I have substantial expert knowledge.

Reverb itself was founded in 2013 by billionaire software executive David Kalt, who purchased Chicago Music Exchange as a vanity business after selling his options trading company to Charles Schwab in 2011 for $1B USD. That's the kind of capital it takes to enter a market dominated by eBay, and undercut their prices while offering demonstrably fewer options to the user.

Many of us flocked to Reverb only because eBay was so egregiously craptastic to their sellers. As with all monopolists, now that Reverb has successfully divided the marketplace, they are flexing their muscle exactly the same way eBay did. They know that in the short term, no one is going to offer any real competition to them.

"We are such an entitled bunch of whiners."
OK, Karen. OK, Boomer.

"Reverb is some kind of social service that should have their profits capped."
Strawman much? Literally no one said any such thing.

"Be grateful that they are still providing you the best service available."
That sounds an awful lot like "shut up, or I'll give you something to *really* cry about". Creeptastic, and demonstrably incorrect. They are not, in fact, "providing the best service available", when they are arbitrarily raising prices by 42.8% in one blow.

There have been no substantial changes to market conditions that could possibly warrant such a price increase. This is nothing more than a naked money grab enabled by the fact that Reverb and eBay effectively constitute a duopoly in a captive market. In fact, market conditions, by any sane stretch of the imagination, demand a price *decrease*, in order to incentivise more business. This is Econ 101, supply and demand basics.

What is obviously going on here is that Reverb's sales figures have taken a gigantic hit due to the fact that, thanks to the global economy being shut down by about 50% (or more), comparatively fewer people have the cash to buy non-essential goods, and quite a few of us are desperate to sell to make rent and utility payments. It's a move that clearly their customers dislike, and that's not a good sign for Reverb's future profitability.

Monopoly power is not "capitalism", it's a *failure* of capitalism. But, hey, keep licking that boot for more salt.

Amazon started out of a garage. It sure seems like a monopoly now, but I assure you it didn't seem that way when it was in a garage.

So, you have have some reasonable choices you can make. Since you're a self proclaimed business genius, start your own Reverb. I like the name "Vibrato.com" or "Tremelo.com". If you think Reverb's profit margins are grotesque, then you should have no problem undercutting them, and one day ruling the world of internet music sales.

Or, another choice is to use someone besides Reverb.

Or, a third choice is to continue to use Reverb.

Whatever you chose, Reverb isn't a social service,...and they owe nothing to any of us. We are free NOT to use them if we find their terms unreasonable.

 

[foothilla]

Whining about whiners. You are 100% free to leave TB, but if you don’t feel like there’s an equal or better option be grateful that we are providing the best TB experience available.

I was referring to "we" Americans, in general, when I referenced "entitled whiners". That wasn't a shot at the TB community. Bass players actually whine less than most.

 

[ajkula66]

That ban was lifted for finished musical instruments and parts.

This is not entirely true. Anything containing Brazilian rosewood is still completely off limits for international sales. So one's vintage Fender/Gibson/Guild/Gretsch along with quite a few much newer PRS examples and some boutique instruments can only be sold within the country that the seller resides in.

And the cites certificate was not much of a problem to get around anyway.

I've heard differently from several sellers but maybe they were unlucky and you weren't. Personally, I was never interested in selling an instrument internationally. Too many things could go wrong with too many unknowns in the equation. But that's me.

 

[40Hz]

I sold through Reverb, whose click-wrap TOS binds me as the seller to list my item with an honest description, and assuming I did so, the buyer's options against me are limited. At worst, he can still enforce a chargeback for the item (ouch, yes, but I'm not paying to defend my actions in the sale in a court halfway across the US, nor writing the buyer a blank check for any damages he can document

Reverb’s TOS only limits what actions a buyer can pursue directly through Reverb. It doesn’t limit in any way the range legal remedies the buyer can pursue. The Reverb TOS will not protect you from being sued by someone nor will Reverb defend you if you are.

Even a meritless or harassing lawsuit is a major hassle to have to deal with. Anyone can file a lawsuit at any time for any reason. And should you chose not to show in court to enter a defense or request dismissal you risk having judgement entered against you by default.

Either way, if you ever get served papers you’ll need an attorney. And that’s going to come out of your pocket no matter what Reverb’s TOS agreement says.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The Reverb TOS does not protect you from being sued by someone nor will Reverb defend you if you are.

Even a meritless or harassing lawsuit is a major hassle to have to deal with. Anyone can file a lawsuit at any time for any reason. And should you chose not to show in court to enter a defense or request dismissal you risk having judgement entered against you by default.

Either way, if you ever get served papers you’ll need an attorney. And that’s going to come out of your pocket no matter what Reverb’s TOS agreement says.

I guess it's a possibility, but does anyone know anyone that has been sued for an online transaction? It has to be in the price range of a car or up before it makes sense to pay for legal action.

 

[40Hz]

I guess it's a possibility, but does anyone know anyone that has been sued for an online transaction? It has to be in the price range of a car or up before it makes sense to pay for legal action.

I don’t. But I’m responding to the post I quoted where someone thought selling through Reverb protected them in some way from liability under civil law.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I don’t. I’m responding to the post I quoted where someone thought selling through Reverb protected them in some way from liability under civil law.

I guess it doesn't protect you, but it provides an alternate route for dispute resolution that is far more likely to be used than the court system. It isn't indemnification insurance, but it makes legal action not worth the effort. Now, I probably wouldn't use that as an excuse to sell a bass that has embedded C4 explosives and a controller that will detonate when a certain sequence of notes is played. That will probably result in legal action. Heh. If a small court claim is made the venue will likely be where the defendant lives, but it can be where the plaintiff lives. Anyways, the limitations usually makes small court claims ideal for local issues - both are in the same county.

 

[foothilla]

I guess it's a possibility, but does anyone know anyone that has been sued for an online transaction? It has to be in the price range of a car or up before it makes sense to pay for legal action.

I haven't been sued. But, years ago I was twice been scammed by people doing chargeback credit card scams. To get my money back the red tape was mind numbing, and I would have lost a lot of money if not for eBay (and to a lesser degree Paypal) protection. I'm fairly certain one or both of them took substantial losses, so that I didn't have to.

I don't particularly like eBay, Paypal, or Reverb. They are just the best options I have.

I sold a $1600 bass on craigslist a few days ago, and it turns out the guy was really nice (as is usually the case). But, it always makes me nervous having a craigs-lister into my home. I'm a pretty big guy, and my house is crawling with Rottweilers, and I still get nervous having an unknown craigs-lister in my home. I can't imagine how nerve racking it would be if I was a small woman, living alone. So, I am grateful to have other options, even if those other options take some money out of my pocket.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I haven't been sued. But, years ago I was twice been scammed by people doing chargeback credit card scams. To get my money back the red tape was mind numbing, and I would have lost a lot of money if not for eBay (and to a lesser degree Paypal) protection. I'm fairly certain one or both of them took substantial losses, so that I didn't have to.

I don't particularly like eBay, Paypal, or Reverb. They are just the best options I have.

I sold a $1600 bass on craigslist a few days ago, and it turns out the guy was really nice (as is usually the case). But, it always makes me nervous having a craigs-lister into my home. I'm a pretty big guy, and my house is crawling with Rottweilers, and I still get nervous having an unknown craigs-lister in my home. I can't imagine how nerve racking it would be if I was a small woman, living alone. So, I am grateful to have other options, even if those other options take some money out of my pocket.

When I was digging through the terms of service for PayPal I saw that there was a line stating that if you file a claim with your credit card company, PayPal will stop pursuing the issue. I just mention that because I've seen people say to open a claim with PayPal and contest the charge on your credit card. That seems like a good thing to do, but it's better to do one or the other and wait for resolution then try the other. (Just a general FYI, not directed at you specifically.)

 

[foothilla]

When I was digging through the terms of service for PayPal I saw that there was a line stating that if you file a claim with your credit card company, PayPal will stop pursuing the issue. I just mention that because I've seen people say to open a claim with PayPal and contest the charge on your credit card. That seems like a good thing to do, but it's better to do one or the other and wait for resolution then try the other. (Just a general FYI, not directed at you specifically.)

What the scammers did to me didn't affect my credit card. Both the scammers had no feedback, they bought expensive instruments, paid for them via paypal (using a credit card), and I shipped the instruments as I normally did. But, it turns out the cards they used were somehow compromised, and the money was pulled out of my paypal account, after they already had the instruments in their possession.

It about stopped my heart both times it happened. But, I got my money back both times,....after a lot of red tape headache.

 

[rufus.K]

Tl, dr 1st 11 pages.

Cant say i care what Reverb charges for seller fees.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

What the scammers did to me didn't affect my credit card. Both the scammers had no feedback, they bought expensive instruments, paid for them via paypal (using a credit card), and I shipped the instruments as I normally did. But, it turns out the cards they used were somehow compromised, and the money was pulled out of my paypal account, after they already had the instruments in their possession.

It about stopped my heart both times it happened. But, I got my money back both times,....after a lot of red tape headache.

I'm surprised that scammers don't compromise PayPal accounts and then send money as Family and Friends, just because they're being nice. You don't get a confirmed address with family and friends and since you accepted family and friends payment, you have no recourse to make a claim with PayPal.

 

[Bonafide]

This is not entirely true. Anything containing Brazilian rosewood is still completely off limits for international sales. So one's vintage Fender/Gibson/Guild/Gretsch along with quite a few much newer PRS examples and some boutique instruments can only be sold within the country that the seller resides in.

Right! My Taylors use it. Good point.

Still alot of BR guitars are clear to travel with a permit. The 'complaint' I noticed is about the process itself. It isn't difficult, just required. And if you can't prove the guitars age, so be it, it might not ship. That could be hard for some. But even if it did ship under 'less than certain' date of manufacture, my experience shows the 'regulation' is surface level enforced at best for individual sellers of guitars as it is just not a priority like furniture.

 

[Mastermold]

How much does it cost now to ship a bass across the USA?