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Reverse Precision Pickups or Standard?
- Thread starter bassrique
- Start date
The third solution could be {or usually IS in a lot of modern basses} a stacked humbucker in soapbar format.
However the very first P-bass had a linear single coil {a.k.a. 51P}
That was the first Leo's design.
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However the very first P-bass had a linear single coil {a.k.a. 51P}
That was the first Leo's design.
Link Removed
I have reverse on my stock US Geddy Jazz, and I always go the wrong direction when I first start tuning.
This topic has come up before. Someone, years ago, put up some interesting sound clips that illustrated some of the differences nicely.
I don't know if Leo ever tested the "reverse" P arrangement.
On basses with a reverse, split-P arrangement, I've seen some that flip the coils around the center-line of the standard P placement (the pickup as a whole is in the same place, the EA/DG coils are just "flipped," with the EA closer to the bridge and the DG closer to the neck) and some with the EA coil in its usual spot and the DG coil "flipped" around that, so that the pickup as a whole is closer to the neck. Some others (particularly when adding a J, MM, or something else in the bridge location) fudge the placement of the P (whether "reverse" or not) or the bridge pickup one way or the other.
My Power Jazz Bass Special (a late 80s Fender with a P body, J neck, and a reverse P + J setup) has the P in the "standard" spot (near as I can tell from comparing it with "normal" Ps), with the coils flipped around the centerline of the standard placement. (I've also played a few other 4- and 5-string "reverse P" basses, with and without bridge pickups, with various placements of the neck pickup.)
Taking the P solo (and assuming "standard" placement), the main difference you hear with a "reverse-P" is tighter low strings and more full high strings. (There's some difference in the harmonic profile, too, but let's stick with "tighter" and "more full" for now.) This goes counter the tendency for the low strings to "boom" a bit and the high strings to sound thin, and there are a lot of people (relatively speaking) who argue that this balances out the sound of the instrument better and that this is the way a Precision Bass should have been made from the outset -- "what Leo shoulda done."
I agree that the sound of the instrument is more balanced/consistent this way (though you can still hear the transition from bass coil to treble coil if you listen) and that it better suits the instrument to some music but, for me, there is still something about the way a standard P is set up, with those more pillowy lows and sharper highs (that have something to do with -- or at least interact with -- the limitations of older amps in a fortuitous way) that... just occupies the space in a different way -- the lows sit differently, the highs pop differently. It you make it growl, it growls differently (more broad, open, relaxed -- subjective, but that's how I hear it). When playing that old music, I feel more connected to it with a standard P than I do a reverse. The instrument speaks and sits in the mix differently.
All that said, there are a lot of other factors that can influence the sound (even two 70s Precisions are likely to sound different, played side by side) and, next to some of them, standard/reverse P orientation is a subtle thing. A reverse-P still sounds "P" to me and I've played old J5 tunes, Funk, R&B and whatever else on it and gotten a good sound. My Power Jazz Bass Special was the only bass I had for a long time.
My trusty PJBS (modified -- sorry purists) is still my favorite bass, but I have a (non-reverse) P with flats now that I prefer for some stuff.
Whew... that's more than I mean to type. I'll add two things, though:
- When a bridge pickup is added to the mix, I prefer the reverse-P. If you're looking for a "Precision with a little bite from the bridge blended in," fine, go with a standard P, but taking the blended sound on its own merits, with the pickups at roughly equal levels, the reverse-P/J works better than a P/J in my opinion. (There are some very good-sounding P/Js out there -- and P/humbuckers, P/MMs -- but that's my opinion and I'd take a reverse-P with them, too.)
- How you play will have more of an impact on how well you can sit in a given mix/tune than will the orientation of the coils on your split-P.
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I can't recall where I saw it, but I did see a discussion once where it was claimed he did it that way on the assumption players would play a lot of octaves on a bass - when you do that, staggering the pickup the way he did makes the sound more consistent across the strings - your fingers are staggered that way on the strings, so if you gotta pick one way or t'other, that might be the rationale he used. I do play a lot of double stops - octaves and fifths, and I find the "normal" arrangement woks very well for me.
On top of that recollection, if you've seen some of the "test mule" stuff he did - a big board, with strings up in the air, and pickups mounted on little shuttles he could slide around and determine where things sounded best, I'd be willing to bet he tried both "normal" and reverse. Leo was a tinkerer, and something that obvious? - yeah, he would have tried it.
Here's a pic of him with a test mule. All the P pickups here are "normal", and yeah, the mule pictured is a guitar, but you can see it would have been easy for him to try "reverse". This picture is obviously G&L days from the headstock, so my guess is he tried reverse decades before (in the 50's, when he was working on the split pickup P) and discarded the idea, which is why you don't see reversed P shuttles here:
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I've read that, too. Makes sense to me. I've you've heard Bobby Vega play a P, you know that it can do some amazing, singing stuff with chords, well beyond the usual "thump" a lot of people associate with a Precision Bass.
I knew he tinkered (and I've seen some photos of prototypes and stuff), but I'm not sure I've seen that. There's a good chance that you're right.
Considering the P Bass has gone on to become The P Bass, it's hard to say there's anything wrong about it. But reversing those pickups just makes so doggone much sense. TV Jones has them reversed on his Thunder Mags, and that's good enough to convince me that it's at least not a bad idea. More power to the folks who like it the original way, but if I were to choose, I'd go reverse.
I made a custom Ripper with two sets of reverse P’s, so I vote reverse.
The solution IMO, is the “Half Reverse P”.
The E&A coil is in the traditional spot, but the D&G gets swapped to the neck side.
Adds beef to the D&G strings, but keeps the E&A in their already perfect position.
It’s glorious.
The E&A coil is in the traditional spot, but the D&G gets swapped to the neck side.
Adds beef to the D&G strings, but keeps the E&A in their already perfect position.
It’s glorious.
I usually play them as they lay, but all of my basses with P's have standard and I see nothing at all wrong with it.
there is space to add a jazz single in the center and a 5-way positions switch like the in Strats, that does: bridge; bridge+middle; middle; middle+neck; neck.
I happen to just LOVE this configuration. Not your normal P bass for sure,..but the same general idea. Ulyate is the p'ups builder
Precision pickups in rectangular shape like this are more elegant.
The standard P-split is a bit ugly, as it is, honestly.
