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Reverse Precision Pickups or Standard?

Reverse or standard P PUs?


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I used a 4 way rotary switch. 1 is neck solo, 2 is both series, 3 is both parallel and 4 is bridge solo.

As of now, it’s just volume and tone with an extra dummy pot not hooked up. I only wanted to make one pickguard so I drilled the extra hole just in case I decide to wire it like a real Ripper.

Cool! :cool:

Drop a Wilde Q-filter module in there and wire it up to the spare pot and you’ll have that modified Ripper wiring scheme that ditches the out-of-phase selection in favor of providing a soloed neck pup. It’s a popular mod since most players don’t use out-of-phase setting much if at all. :thumbsup:
 
Cool! :cool:

Drop a Wilde Q-filter module in there and wire it up to the spare pot and you’ll have that modified Ripper wiring scheme that ditches the out-of-phase selection in favor of providing a soloed neck pup. It’s a popular mod since most players don’t use out-of-phase setting much if at all. :thumbsup:

what does the Q-filter do? I’ve been trying to find a YouTube video of it being used.
 
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what does the Q-filter do? I’ve been trying to find a YouTube video of it being used.

It’s the midrange choke circuit found on the Ripper. Wire it to a pot just like you would the capacitor on a standard tone knob and insert it in parallel with your tone control.

FWIW I think calling it a “passive midrange” like it’s usually called is a misnomer. On a Ripper it sounds more (to me at least) like a texture control that tightens or loosens up the overall sound. Dialed low it’s more like that tight Stingray vibe. Cranked you get more string overtones and it sounds more loose and open and “stringy” for lack of a better way to describe it. It’s very noticeable on a Ripper because the Lawrence pickups (or Seymour-Duncan’s CS replacements) on that bass are so clean. With other pickups it may yield a less obvious difference.
 
What is that?

that is another one of my Frankenstein parts bass creations ...

It started out like this ...

oct 044.jpg


then it got like this



then this


and I have not yet photographed the new version with a fretless neck
 
that is another one of my Frankenstein parts bass creations ...

It started out like this ...

View attachment 3564031

then it got like this



then this


and I have not yet photographed the new version with a fretless neck
Pickup changes?

Someone posted an Aria Pro II before. Reverse PU. Reminds me of a listing from the other day that reminded me of one of my first basses:
Screenshot_2019-10-12-21-48-19.png

Therefore I have played a reverse. Ha! Forgot!
 
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Standard for me, never liked reverse. Perhaps reverse may work slightly better for blending with a bridge pickup but I don't like the sound of bridge pickups so reverse is completely pointless for me. If it's only one split coil pickup it has to be standard for me.

Sandberg seem to think so too. Their California VS (P only) is standard but the California VT (P+J) and VM (P+MM) has the reverse P.
 
This topic has come up before. Someone, years ago, put up some interesting sound clips that illustrated some of the differences nicely.

I don't know if Leo ever tested the "reverse" P arrangement.

On basses with a reverse, split-P arrangement, I've seen some that flip the coils around the center-line of the standard P placement (the pickup as a whole is in the same place, the EA/DG coils are just "flipped," with the EA closer to the bridge and the DG closer to the neck) and some with the EA coil in its usual spot and the DG coil "flipped" around that, so that the pickup as a whole is closer to the neck. Some others (particularly when adding a J, MM, or something else in the bridge location) fudge the placement of the P (whether "reverse" or not) or the bridge pickup one way or the other.

My Power Jazz Bass Special (a late 80s Fender with a P body, J neck, and a reverse P + J setup) has the P in the "standard" spot (near as I can tell from comparing it with "normal" Ps), with the coils flipped around the centerline of the standard placement. (I've also played a few other 4- and 5-string "reverse P" basses, with and without bridge pickups, with various placements of the neck pickup.)

Taking the P solo (and assuming "standard" placement), the main difference you hear with a "reverse-P" is tighter low strings and more full high strings. (There's some difference in the harmonic profile, too, but let's stick with "tighter" and "more full" for now.) This goes counter the tendency for the low strings to "boom" a bit and the high strings to sound thin, and there are a lot of people (relatively speaking) who argue that this balances out the sound of the instrument better and that this is the way a Precision Bass should have been made from the outset -- "what Leo shoulda done."

I agree that the sound of the instrument is more balanced/consistent this way (though you can still hear the transition from bass coil to treble coil if you listen) and that it better suits the instrument to some music but, for me, there is still something about the way a standard P is set up, with those more pillowy lows and sharper highs (that have something to do with -- or at least interact with -- the limitations of older amps in a fortuitous way) that... just occupies the space in a different way -- the lows sit differently, the highs pop differently. It you make it growl, it growls differently (more broad, open, relaxed -- subjective, but that's how I hear it). When playing that old music, I feel more connected to it with a standard P than I do a reverse. The instrument speaks and sits in the mix differently.

All that said, there are a lot of other factors that can influence the sound (even two 70s Precisions are likely to sound different, played side by side) and, next to some of them, standard/reverse P orientation is a subtle thing. A reverse-P still sounds "P" to me and I've played old J5 tunes, Funk, R&B and whatever else on it and gotten a good sound. My Power Jazz Bass Special was the only bass I had for a long time.

My trusty PJBS (modified -- sorry purists) is still my favorite bass, but I have a (non-reverse) P with flats now that I prefer for some stuff.

Whew... that's more than I mean to type. I'll add two things, though:
  • When a bridge pickup is added to the mix, I prefer the reverse-P. If you're looking for a "Precision with a little bite from the bridge blended in," fine, go with a standard P, but taking the blended sound on its own merits, with the pickups at roughly equal levels, the reverse-P/J works better than a P/J in my opinion. (There are some very good-sounding P/Js out there -- and P/humbuckers, P/MMs -- but that's my opinion and I'd take a reverse-P with them, too.)
  • How you play will have more of an impact on how well you can sit in a given mix/tune than will the orientation of the coils on your split-P.
I'll step away from the keyboard, now.
This!

My 2 cents:

4-string = normal
5-string = reversed
 
I have a late 90s Yamaha BBG4SII with two soap-bar pickups that never really thrilled me tonally. Upon investigating I figured out the pickups were both split-coil in "reverse". I started noticing that the E and A strings sounded too thin to me, and the D and G strings sounded too bassy. I decided to flip both pickups, which if I recall brought the neck coils into the exact P location. Now the bass sounds great.
 
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I have a late 90s Yamaha BBG4SII with two soap-bar pickups that never really thrilled me tonally. Upon investigating I figured out the pickups were both split-coil in "reverse". I started noticing that the E and A strings sounded too thin to me, and the D and G strings sounded too bassy. I decided to flip both pickups, which if I recall brought the neck coils into the exact P location. Now the bass sounds great.
i don't see how flipping a soapbar would change the coil location... it should still be a reverse p configuration...
 
one of janek gwizdalas new signature basses has a triple p pickup. a normal p pickup plus a second half for the e and a string toward the bridge. he han switch from p to reverse p (a little further back) and the difference is surprisingly big...
 
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Reverse P makes better sense to the modern player in which the bass guitar has come into its own......I can understand why its original configuration is what it is: designed in an era when the instrument was in its infancy and trying to substitute for an upright......
 
I voted for the third option, because I love the stock P bass pickup sound, but also think a setup with the E and A pickup in stock position, but the D and G one switched to the neck side will bring better balance and should sound great.

I think I'll try this with one my basses to test.

It's been a pet peeve of mine with the Stratocaster bridge pickup. I heard Leo designed it that way to increase the tonal range of the instrument, so a chord will sound "fuller", low strings beefier and high strings more biting. I think that was valid for the time period, but with more modern music and lead playing, reverse pickup makes more sense to me to get a more balanced sound. Then there's the tone pot arrangement... sigh. I usually rewire mine so they apply to the mid and bridge rather than neck and mid.
 
No doubt about it. Reversed coils sound better. Balanced. The bass of the E & A are tightened up and the high end of the D & G become richer and fuller........toned down a wee bit high end. I'd say about a 15% to 20% improvement for the P Bass with reversed coils.

Of about 10 P Basses in my pile, this one sounds the best. It is also my 2nd cheapest bass with about $450 in it. I got the body here on TalkBass from member Dan Atkinson (spelling?). It was used and excellent price. Has dings and scratches........so what!

Interestingly, the pickup rout is reversed and is not a "rout over", or a "swimming pool" rout. Pickguard was included and was made by Pickguardian.

Has a Duncan SPB-1 pickup. Allparts MIJ P neck which is full and chubby (love it!)! All the hardware is Fender vintage reissue. Has a real deal nitro finish with some natural cracking.

This is a nice bass! Reverse those coils!

DSCF7116.JPG
DSCF7119.JPG
 
Standard placements are on my P's and everywhere in the world. They sound and respond fine. Nuances can be readily achieved with your fingers and dare I say EQ. Why bother routing bodies and finding appropriate pick guards, and taking financial hits on personally modified basses? If it ain't broke.....ladies and gentlemen, what do we not do?
 
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I've (had) both normal that still have and reverse. Reverse was more tonal accurated, more warm and bright on the hights, the volume between strings was balanced, In my opinion no game between...Reverse P is the P... the other is still a E-Bumper.....
 
This topic has come up before. Someone, years ago, put up some interesting sound clips that illustrated some of the differences nicely.

I don't know if Leo ever tested the "reverse" P arrangement.

On basses with a reverse, split-P arrangement, I've seen some that flip the coils around the center-line of the standard P placement (the pickup as a whole is in the same place, the EA/DG coils are just "flipped," with the EA closer to the bridge and the DG closer to the neck) and some with the EA coil in its usual spot and the DG coil "flipped" around that, so that the pickup as a whole is closer to the neck. Some others (particularly when adding a J, MM, or something else in the bridge location) fudge the placement of the P (whether "reverse" or not) or the bridge pickup one way or the other.

My Power Jazz Bass Special (a late 80s Fender with a P body, J neck, and a reverse P + J setup) has the P in the "standard" spot (near as I can tell from comparing it with "normal" Ps), with the coils flipped around the centerline of the standard placement. (I've also played a few other 4- and 5-string "reverse P" basses, with and without bridge pickups, with various placements of the neck pickup.)

Taking the P solo (and assuming "standard" placement), the main difference you hear with a "reverse-P" is tighter low strings and more full high strings. (There's some difference in the harmonic profile, too, but let's stick with "tighter" and "more full" for now.) This goes counter the tendency for the low strings to "boom" a bit and the high strings to sound thin, and there are a lot of people (relatively speaking) who argue that this balances out the sound of the instrument better and that this is the way a Precision Bass should have been made from the outset -- "what Leo shoulda done."

I agree that the sound of the instrument is more balanced/consistent this way (though you can still hear the transition from bass coil to treble coil if you listen) and that it better suits the instrument to some music but, for me, there is still something about the way a standard P is set up, with those more pillowy lows and sharper highs (that have something to do with -- or at least interact with -- the limitations of older amps in a fortuitous way) that... just occupies the space in a different way -- the lows sit differently, the highs pop differently. It you make it growl, it growls differently (more broad, open, relaxed -- subjective, but that's how I hear it). When playing that old music, I feel more connected to it with a standard P than I do a reverse. The instrument speaks and sits in the mix differently.

All that said, there are a lot of other factors that can influence the sound (even two 70s Precisions are likely to sound different, played side by side) and, next to some of them, standard/reverse P orientation is a subtle thing. A reverse-P still sounds "P" to me and I've played old J5 tunes, Funk, R&B and whatever else on it and gotten a good sound. My Power Jazz Bass Special was the only bass I had for a long time.

My trusty PJBS (modified -- sorry purists) is still my favorite bass, but I have a (non-reverse) P with flats now that I prefer for some stuff.

Whew... that's more than I mean to type. I'll add two things, though:
  • When a bridge pickup is added to the mix, I prefer the reverse-P. If you're looking for a "Precision with a little bite from the bridge blended in," fine, go with a standard P, but taking the blended sound on its own merits, with the pickups at roughly equal levels, the reverse-P/J works better than a P/J in my opinion. (There are some very good-sounding P/Js out there -- and P/humbuckers, P/MMs -- but that's my opinion and I'd take a reverse-P with them, too.)
  • How you play will have more of an impact on how well you can sit in a given mix/tune than will the orientation of the coils on your split-P.
I'll step away from the keyboard, now.

I’m going to differ on this one point. I feel that Leo got it right. His version of the split coil allows for the sound to bloom the lower the pitch in a very natural way, much like a piano. It is a very smooth transition top to bottom, with little to no hump, just a gradual increase in low end on the way down, or decrease on the way up. IMO, this is why these are so popular in the studio, they are extremely predictable and consistent up and down the fretboard.

As for application in live setting, you post is pretty much spot on. Thanks for posting.
 
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