Rick Beato: What bassplayers should know

[consectaneus]

I don't know much about perfect pitch but I also don't see what's impressive about it. Perfect pitch is a party trick. "That's a Bb" is not a musical skill.

Is his perfect pitch in A440? What happens if the instruments are tuned to each other instead of a pitch? Is the music unlistenable because it's not falling into the right slots?

I didn't know a lot about it either until I delved a little deeper into several of Rick's videos on the subject. I believe he defines perfect pitch as the ability to identify a pitch accurately and every time without the aid of a reference note. (The latter ability would be called "relative pitch".) He firmly believes perfect pitch cannot be attained after the age of 6, and certainly not as an adult. However he believes that with work, relative pitch can be learned by the rest of us. As I understand him, relative pitch is being able to identify the relationship pitches and intervals in relation to others (reference notes). He considers this skill as just as important to the musician in the practical world. He demonstrates this also using himself at the keyboard as an example. He has personally developed this skill to an impressive level and you see it at work in many of his analysis videos.

I'm sure by now he has heard it all regarding the merits or drawbacks of having perfect pitch. I have seen it flatly stated here that it's a curse. I think that in order to address this, he has asked his son if he is bothered by out of tune instruments, and he claims he isn't. This may also be a learned behavior--the ability to live with it and still enjoy music that you perceive as out of tune, I don't know, just my own thought. He does a demo with his son where he pitch shifts some notes to fall just sharp or just flat to see how he reacts. Dylan describes it as a "mix" which nevertheless leans toward one side or the other. Sort of like how greenish-blue can lead more to the green or the blue side depending.

It's pretty interesting actually. It hints at lots of benefits in other areas and concepts of neuroscience that go way beyond me. I actually do think being able to identify Bb would be a valuable musical skill. Far beyond that, he recognizes the component pitches which make up chords. Imagine the deep understanding of music that would give a person, coupled with the training on piano and theory that the boy is also receiving from his father who is a music educator and musician himself. To see and conceptualize and internalize fluently and in real time like a language--just the way we understand and speak spontaneously and intuitively. That's the holy grail isn't it? I just look forward to seeing what he will be able to do with all of this in the future.

 

[Allan Allan]

I didn't know a lot about it either until I delved a little deeper into several of Rick's videos on the subject. I believe he defines perfect pitch as the ability to identify a pitch accurately and every time without the aid of a reference note. (The latter ability would be called "relative pitch".) He firmly believes perfect pitch cannot be attained after the age of 6, and certainly not as an adult. However he believes that with work, relative pitch can be learned by the rest of us. As I understand him, relative pitch is being able to identify the relationship pitches and intervals in relation to others (reference notes). He considers this skill as just as important to the musician in the practical world. He demonstrates this also using himself at the keyboard as an example. He has personally developed this skill to an impressive level and you see it at work in many of his analysis videos.

I'm sure by now he has heard it all regarding the merits or drawbacks of having perfect pitch. I have seen it flatly stated here that it's a curse. I think that in order to address this, he has asked his son if he is bothered by out of tune instruments, and he claims he isn't. This may also be a learned behavior--the ability to live with it and still enjoy music that you perceive as out of tune, I don't know, just my own thought. He does a demo with his son where he pitch shifts some notes to fall just sharp or just flat to see how he reacts. Dylan describes it as a "mix" which nevertheless leans toward one side or the other. Sort of like how greenish-blue can lead more to the green or the blue side depending.

It's pretty interesting actually. It hints at lots of benefits in other areas and concepts of neuroscience that go way beyond me. I actually do think being able to identify Bb would be a valuable musical skill. Far beyond that, he recognizes the component pitches which make up chords. Imagine the deep understanding of music that would give a person, coupled with the training on piano and theory that the boy is also receiving from his father who is a music educator and musician himself. To see and conceptualize and internalize fluently and in real time like a language--just the way we understand and speak spontaneously and intuitively. That's the holy grail isn't it? I just look forward to seeing what he will be able to do with all of this in the future.

I think the piano and music theory from an engaged and supportive parent will be the true reason for his musical success.

Here's an example for you, I know what blue looks like and I can barely paint a smiley face.

Perfect pitch seems to be an excuse from the "if only I had xxx" people as to why they aren't better. If only I had an SVT, if only I had a 68 jazz bass, if only I had perfect pitch, but in reality, nothing beats time on the fretboard.

I can also recite the Spanish alphabet, but I can't have a conversation.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I've know alot of musicians with perfect pitch. (Two close friends and maybe 10 other music students in my university and cegep years)

None of them where happy/glad they had this ability. They almost considered it a curse.

My 2 cents.

 

[RichardW]

Yeah, Beato has this whole other side gig hawking methods of making your kids "smarter"--like teaching them perfect pitch or how to speak Mandarin Chinese at age three (what's the big deal about that anyway--there are about 500 million Chinese toddlers who can do that already). I personally don't understand the value making your youngster "smart" in that way. I knew plenty of "genius" kids who grew up to be unhappy and totally f-ed up adults.

But I love his music stuff.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I know at least (there may be more that I'm not aware of) four people who have perfect pitch. All of them are good musicians. Two of them are really going places. But sure, should they plant vines in their gardens someday, grapes may still turn up sour I guess.

 

[consectaneus]

Yeah, Beato has this whole other side gig hawking methods of making your kids "smarter"--like teaching them perfect pitch or how to speak Mandarin Chinese at age three (what's the big deal about that anyway--there are about 500 million Chinese toddlers who can do that already). I personally don't understand the value making your youngster "smart" in that way. I knew plenty of "genius" kids who grew up to be unhappy and totally f-ed up adults.

But I love his music stuff.

I do too. I haven't seen the other stuff, but it doesn't surprise me. I know he believes in that short window in children when our brains are the most "plastic" and are absorbing a tremendous amount of information. Shortly after that things get set (language skills, pitch recognition he would argue). So where music is concerned he exposed his kids (from the womb) to what he calls "high information" music...lots of jazz, classical, and complex improvisors at the same time they are developing language skills. It's not really a new idea. I remember something a long time ago called "Genius Baby" or something where the concept was to expose the child to Mozart etc. pre and post natal and that this would be beneficial to their intellectual development.

Looking at his son Dylan, it's hard to argue the results. What degree nature and nurture and "X" factors have on his success is certainly a question and must be factored in IMO. I do think that it does accord with what educators have observed...that music education has a spillover effect and that children who learn music very often do well in many other academic subjects. That's why I regret seeing music and art programs the first subjects on the school budget chopping block when things get tight. These are seen as the least essential, and while I'm not arguing their merit compared to math and science and language, it is too bad.

 

[wintremute]

My immediate thought in terms of the effective use of space was this one. Of course it is a great example of arranging and performance on the part of all the musicians...but that bass! The contrast between the verse/chorus section is very dramatic IMO.

I love that song. The verse groovers, the chorus rocks.

 

[Lagado]

However he believes that with work, relative pitch can be learned by the rest of us. As I understand him, relative pitch is being able to identify the relationship pitches and intervals in relation to others (reference notes). He considers this skill as just as important to the musician in the practical world. He demonstrates this also using himself at the keyboard as an example. He has personally developed this skill to an impressive level and you see it at work in many of his analysis videos.

The easiest way that I've found that anyone can get relative pitch is this simple method:

Interval recognition - Wikipedia

Easy recall.

The only person I have known who had perfect pitch had Synesthesia.

Synesthesia - Wikipedia

He could learn and transcribe practically anything. It was uncanny to witness that ability at first. From a door creaking to a kettle whistling, any pitch at all.

 

[consectaneus]

I love that song. The verse groovers, the chorus rocks.

I notice you quote the great JimmyM in your sig. Coincidentally, he answered an early question of mine about that song and how to count it. I just couldn't understand the syncopation and it was he who answered and said the bass starts on the "and" of one. I had found one of those isolated track things and when I listened closely sure enough you can barely hear the drummer shout "one!", and then boom.

 

[consectaneus]

The easiest way that I've found that anyone can get relative pitch is this simple method:

Interval recognition - Wikipedia

Easy recall.

The only person I have known who had perfect pitch had Synesthesia.

Synesthesia - Wikipedia

He could learn and transcribe practically anything. It was uncanny to witness that ability at first. From a door creaking to a kettle whistling, any pitch at all.

I love the Wiki reference tunes! Thank you! It is great having a list like that. I'm going to work with it! Also, I only quickly scanned the Synesthesia link, but wanted to get back to you right away because that is fascinating. These are exactly the kinds of associations I suspected and I was sure extensive study had to have been done before. I look forward to reading that fully.

I occasionally sing in a choir and once I get the tune down, I have no problem singing in key without a reference. At practice I would get a little impatient waiting for the director to cue up the music and I would just start singing it and the others would follow. He asked me if I had perfect pitch. haha. I just said I hear it in my head in tune like a soundtrack and just sing to it. He said "I wish I could do that", and it honestly surprised me because I didn't think it was a unique ability. I'm not sure it is. It would be fun to get into a program and maybe develop whatever ability I have.

 

[Lagado]

I love the Wiki reference tunes! Thank you! It is great having a list like that. I'm going to work with it! Also, I only quickly scanned the Synesthesia link, but wanted to get back to you right away because that is fascinating. These are exactly the kinds of associations I suspected and I was sure extensive study had to have been done before. I look forward to reading that fully.

I occasionally sing in a choir and once I get the tune down, I have no problem singing in key without a reference. At practice I would get a little impatient waiting for the director to cue up the music and I would just start singing it and the others would follow. He asked me if I had perfect pitch. haha. I just said I hear it in my head in tune like a soundtrack and just sing to it. He said "I wish I could do that", and it honestly surprised me because I didn't think it was a unique ability. I'm not sure it is. It would be fun to get into a program and maybe develop whatever ability I have.

For relative interval recall it's very good, and a good way to reinforce and recognise those intervals away from the instrument. The physical aspects of singing certain pitches can be a cue for singers, restringing a bass I can tune the G roundaboutish but I rely on how the string tension feels too.

 

[Christcr]

I don't know much about perfect pitch but I also don't see what's impressive about it. Perfect pitch is a party trick. "That's a Bb" is not a musical skill.

Is his perfect pitch in A440? What happens if the instruments are tuned to each other instead of a pitch? Is the music unlistenable because it's not falling into the right slots?

It's way more than being able to name a note. If you've seen it in action, I'll bet you'd be more impressed and see what an advantage it can be.

I was in bands with a guy for years who had perfect pitch... but, he barely even knew the names of the notes and had no idea what the chords he was playing were called. His skill was that you could play any chord on a guitar or keyboard and he could instant go right to it and play any complicated voicing you threw at him (given the limitation of what voicings you can play on a guitar). If you asked him what it was, he had no idea. But he could play it. Complicated jazz songs he'd never heard... instantly, on the spot, and on the fly. Never bothered to ask what key songs were in. Never had to practice through specific songs. He just played them. And as far as arrangements, if he'd heard the song once in his life when he was five years old, he had the arrangement down. And the key. And all the chords no matter how complex. He had a "musical photographic memory" in addition to perfect pitch. He had no formal training or lessons, learned as a kid by sitting around playing to records (this has been many years ago), and was mostly into hard rock and metal.

Now, if you can't see that as an advantage in a musical situation, I don't know what to tell you. I'd have to sit for hours listening to a recordings to learn songs, and he barely had to even hear them, let alone practice them. He just played it. Perfect first time through, even on the fly if he'd never heard it in his life. Never needed any clarification on the chords. No questions. No hesitation. In fact, he would often correct the rest of us "schooled" musicians on weird chord voicings. He had no idea what they were called, but he'd play the arpeggio and say, "Like this. These notes." And he couldn't even name them! Obviously he had incredible relative pitch skill as well. BUT, you could wake him up in the morning play a chord out of his view, and he could instantly, without fishing, play it on his guitar. I mean go right to it and play it first time with no other context. Any strange jazz chord or altered atonal monstrosity. he could hear all the notes, translate it to his fingers and play it, in most cases instantly and in all cases accurately.

 

[Christcr]

Oh, and I can think of one real practical advantage to perfect pitch right off the top of my head. I play guitar as well, and I can spend a half an hour trying to figure out some weird chord from a recording (and eventually I do figure it out), whereas the guy I described in my last post could go to it instantly. And it is not just relative pitch--he could go to the chord instantly and play it whether it was in context of a song or something he just heard in isolation. Just that ability alone would have saved probably thousands of hours of my life.

I can always hear if a chord doesn't sound right. But I can't always figure out what it is supposed to be (at least not without a lot of time and effort). Sure would be nice to just "go to the right chord" instantly, wouldn't it?

 

[Allan Allan]

Oh, and I can think of one real practical advantage to perfect pitch right off the top of my head. I play guitar as well, and I can spend a half an hour trying to figure out some weird chord from a recording (and eventually I do figure it out), whereas the guy I described in my last post could go to it instantly. And it is not just relative pitch--he could go to the chord instantly and play it whether it was in context of a song or something he just heard in isolation. Just that ability alone would have saved probably thousands of hours of my life.

I can always hear if a chord doesn't sound right. But I can't always figure out what it is supposed to be (at least not without a lot of time and effort). Sure would be nice to just "go to the right chord" instantly, wouldn't it?

You still have to have the fretboard memorized to go with all that. There is a deep level of technical skill you are attributing to this guy's perfect pitch. Give him a violin, tuned to 3rds, don't tell him, and then see how quickly he can match everything perfectly. You have to know HOW to play along with WHAT to play.

I'll go back to my painting analogy, I know what red is, I can look at red and say "that's red." But I can't paint the Mona Lisa. You have to have the knowledge and nurture the skill.

 

[La Faro]

You still have to have the fretboard memorized to go with all that. There is a deep level of technical skill you are attributing to this guy's perfect pitch. Give him a violin, tuned to 3rds, don't tell him, and then see how quickly he can match everything perfectly. You have to know HOW to play along with WHAT to play.

I'll go back to my painting analogy, I know what red is, I can look at red and say "that's red." But I can't paint the Mona Lisa. You have to have the knowledge and nurture the skill.

Fine

 

[Allan Allan]

Fine

I'm also sick of this conversation.

 

[Koshchei]

Discuss

He's right, but he does some of it weirdly, such as muting. You can tell he's much more comfortable on an upright.

 

[La Faro]

I'm also sick of this conversation.

Good

 

[Allan Allan]

Good

Okay?