Another question, are the 4003s' considered real Rics?
Are they, like, cheaper versions or something?
Are they, like, cheaper versions or something?
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Rickenbacker Help?
- Thread starter organworthyplayer337
- Start date
No. All the "S" means is that there is some additional contouring on the front edge of the body, dots instead of triangles position markers, and mono instead of Ric-O-Sound. The construction and the hardware are identical to the 4003.
I believe the S designafion meant 'Special'. Not sure what year it first appeared. The bass that FC Hall gave to Paul McCartney in NYC in 1964 was a 4001S. In England, the Ric distributor Rose Morris offered that model and referred to it as the RM1999.
I have a 1993 4003S. It has dot fretboard inlays instead of the shark teeth inlays. There is no neck binding, and of course no body binding as the body is contoured. But it is every bit a Ric just like my '09 4003.
There are some subtle differences between these models compared to their vintage counterparts. You gotta get Paul's book to get all the detailed info.
I have a 1993 4003S. It has dot fretboard inlays instead of the shark teeth inlays. There is no neck binding, and of course no body binding as the body is contoured. But it is every bit a Ric just like my '09 4003.
There are some subtle differences between these models compared to their vintage counterparts. You gotta get Paul's book to get all the detailed info.
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That's the thing. The "S" did mean "special" but not until the early '80s. Before that, Rickenbacker didn't designate any model the "4001S". It just wasn't on the price sheets, but if you wanted one like that, RIC would just take a 4000 chassis and bore it out for the second pickup and controls, and voila! More often than not, Rickenbacker referred to it as a "4000+1". From mid 1972 until the end of production in the early '80s, this model and the 4000 had a two-piece body with a set neck. As it appears there was still some demand for the "traditional" 4001 and the down-trimmed model after the introduction of the 4003 in 1980, Rickenbacker listed the 4001 and started listing the down-trimmed model as the "4001S". It was "special" because it was not the standard model.
Once the inventory dwindled, price sheet and "catalog" listings of the 4001 models ended (the 4001FL fretless hung on for another year or so). Right around 1981, RIC inserted a new reissued Toaster pickup in some leftover 4001S and advertised it as the 4001SB. Along with a Fireglo 360 12-string and a Jetglo 325 six-string, the B models (B for Beatles, but never mentioned) were arguably the first attempt by a guitar manufacturer (in the U.S., I would guess) at a "vintage" simulation. When the 4001S models were gone in 1982-83, they introduced the 4003S and the 4003SB (with the Toaster). When John Hall bought the company from his father (yes, he wasn't "given" the company), he cancelled the B models and developed the more vintage-accurate V series starting in 1984.
Once the inventory dwindled, price sheet and "catalog" listings of the 4001 models ended (the 4001FL fretless hung on for another year or so). Right around 1981, RIC inserted a new reissued Toaster pickup in some leftover 4001S and advertised it as the 4001SB. Along with a Fireglo 360 12-string and a Jetglo 325 six-string, the B models (B for Beatles, but never mentioned) were arguably the first attempt by a guitar manufacturer (in the U.S., I would guess) at a "vintage" simulation. When the 4001S models were gone in 1982-83, they introduced the 4003S and the 4003SB (with the Toaster). When John Hall bought the company from his father (yes, he wasn't "given" the company), he cancelled the B models and developed the more vintage-accurate V series starting in 1984.
This is quoted from the book by Richard R Smith...
Page 205..."4001S...The Factory manufactured the Model 4001 basses with standard features(dot inlays and no binding). This was the 4001S in America and the export solid body bass, Model 1999, in Britian*. Rickenbacker's two most famous bass artists...Paul McCartney and Chris Squire played the 4001S
"The 1960's price sheets or catalogs did not advertise the plain wrap 4001S. It was available on a special order basis,but the factory made few other than the ones exported. Rickenbacker received more orders more orders for them in the early 1970's when fans saw McCartney and Squire playing them. The company added the 4001S to the June 1980 price list as a regular model,but replaced it in 1986 with the 4003S."
*= footnote #30..."There was some confusion about the model design bass. At one point the company referred to it as "The Rickenbacker 4000 solid body bass guitar with extra pickup". The factory called it the 4000S/2 and the 4001S/2 in correspondence to England."
Page 213..."Model 4003S...Introduced in 1980, this is the unbound, standard features version of the 4003."
Page 205..."4001S...The Factory manufactured the Model 4001 basses with standard features(dot inlays and no binding). This was the 4001S in America and the export solid body bass, Model 1999, in Britian*. Rickenbacker's two most famous bass artists...Paul McCartney and Chris Squire played the 4001S
"The 1960's price sheets or catalogs did not advertise the plain wrap 4001S. It was available on a special order basis,but the factory made few other than the ones exported. Rickenbacker received more orders more orders for them in the early 1970's when fans saw McCartney and Squire playing them. The company added the 4001S to the June 1980 price list as a regular model,but replaced it in 1986 with the 4003S."
*= footnote #30..."There was some confusion about the model design bass. At one point the company referred to it as "The Rickenbacker 4000 solid body bass guitar with extra pickup". The factory called it the 4000S/2 and the 4001S/2 in correspondence to England."
Page 213..."Model 4003S...Introduced in 1980, this is the unbound, standard features version of the 4003."
Anyone know if the new 4003S body and the 4004 body is the same? At one time I believe I read that the 4004 bodies were more sculpted, but I did not know if that meant merely the absence of binding.
I'd be interested in finding this out too. While I haven't weighed them, my Standard 4003 seems like a boat anchor compared to my cii.
I know theres going to be differences due to the walnut and lack of chrome, but it seems a little more than that.
I'd swear the 4003 is thicker too.
Time to break out the scale and tape measure.
I know theres going to be differences due to the walnut and lack of chrome, but it seems a little more than that.
I'd swear the 4003 is thicker too.
Time to break out the scale and tape measure.
No. The "body" of the 4004 models is thinner and the edges sculpted a little differently than the "S" models. I don't have measurements, sorry, but perhaps someone out there can pull out a caliper and do a comparo?
Ric5
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They put the toaster and horseshoe in all 4001 basses until about 69 to 73 ... those were the years they switched to high gain pickups. Then in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s they did the V53 and C64 re-issure basses with toaster and horseshoe pickups.
Now days you can buy the toaster and horseshoe pickups and put them in any bass.
I thought JH wrote at one time that all the bodies were same thickness? I could be wrong. Weight would not work, different species in the 4004cii sandwich, and even within the same species, wood weight is not constant. Over the years, the horns have been trimmed, also brought down closer to the end of the fretboard, one would almost have to compare basses made at the same time.
I have a '93 4003S in Fireglo that has the chunkier horns. I love it!
I have a '93 4003S in Fireglo that has the chunkier horns. I love it!
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Even the 3 4004 models i own don't seem to be the same,the C model is definitely more contoured,my Cii a little less so,and the Laredo is the "chunkiest" in all overall dimensions.
I saw one for $1000.00 used at the Nashville New and Used Music store, and it was ratty but it played. I seriously considered buying it. Went home, did some research on used Ric prices, went back to the store the next day and it had sold. So it is possible to find them under $1500.00 but very rare IMO.
I believe Jeff was referring to the time range inclusive of both pickups, not that the HSPU was around through '73.
Ric5
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
The horns on the 60s basses were thinner, they got thicker in the 70s and about 1997 they got thinner again. The headstock also changed shape a few times. Neck profiles have changed a lot but the 4000, 4001, 4002 and 4003 pretty much always have the same body thickness. 4004s are thinner.
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I kept an eye out for about a year, periodically checking eBay and Kijiji (Canada) , I bought a 91' Mapleglo 4003 for $1425 CDN, (about $1100 USD) it popped up in the next town over, so they're out there, just takes some patience. Bass is mint! (no scuffs, scratches, or blemishes). Came in a generic hardshell case.
