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Rickenbacker......older vs. todays???
- Thread starter sleevey55
- Start date
I'd love to get some comment from RIC about this - every 4001 I've ever seen and owned has had the slightly lifted tailpiece - I assumed it was part of the design? It's a cast piece of metal, firmly screwed down - surely "lift" should imply there should be signs that it's bending (which there isn't)?
Wrong.
It is bending, and a lot of them show plating cracking from it.
What amazes me is how simple it would be to fix this if Rickenbacher cared, which they don't (I don't think I've ever encountered a gear company with more contempt for their customers). If there's a lip under the trailing edge, all they'd have to do would be hook it under the head of a screw or two driven into the body. Not rocket science.
I agree that the design is flawed - as a unit it looks great (Ricks just look plain wrong without it!), but it is probably one of the worst bass bridge/tailpiece designs in existence, from a practical point of view. Setting intonation involves slackening off the strings and removing the bridge to get at the damn adjustment screws, for god's sake! The bridge unit also tends to lean over under the pressure of the strings at tension, supported as it is on two relatively small screws!
Has anyone here tried the Hipshot replacement? It looks pretty good, and seems to fix all of the above practical issues - been thinking about it for a while, but it's pretty expensive just for a try-out.
Mid 1970s tailpieces can and do lift and or crack.
I recently found a small crack in the side of the tail on my '76 4000, and the original tail on my '77 4001 had a crack in the webbing underneath.
Likely due to voids in the casting I suspect.
The newer tails seem stronger, no change yet in mine from 2010, but it has only been 3 years (going on 4).
The 1970s necks were (and are still) some of the most stable necks you'll ever find on a production bass, though the new ones are quite good, but do need an occasional seasonal tweak.
The choice comes down to desirable features, neck size, pickup output/pot values, and price.
A new bass will do anything an older bass can do, even sound the same with a pot change and will generally have less fret/finish wear, while costing the same on average as a nice example of a run of the mill 1970s bass.
Sometimes you can find a modded older bass for a cheap price, then decide whether you want to restore the stock functionality (hardware/electronics) or leave as is.
I recently found a small crack in the side of the tail on my '76 4000, and the original tail on my '77 4001 had a crack in the webbing underneath.
Likely due to voids in the casting I suspect.
The newer tails seem stronger, no change yet in mine from 2010, but it has only been 3 years (going on 4).
The 1970s necks were (and are still) some of the most stable necks you'll ever find on a production bass, though the new ones are quite good, but do need an occasional seasonal tweak.
The choice comes down to desirable features, neck size, pickup output/pot values, and price.
A new bass will do anything an older bass can do, even sound the same with a pot change and will generally have less fret/finish wear, while costing the same on average as a nice example of a run of the mill 1970s bass.
Sometimes you can find a modded older bass for a cheap price, then decide whether you want to restore the stock functionality (hardware/electronics) or leave as is.
The bridge can often be adjusted with less hassle and the right screwdriver, but it certainly is not user friendly in the least, though it does indeed look nice.
I have a brass Hipshot on my '77 and it works well, but had an issue with saddle wobble.
The break angle over the saddles is quite low so there isn't really enough down pressure to keep the saddles stable.
It can be alleviated by making sure the level adjustment screws are set perfectly level (or at worst, shimming between the saddles), mine don't wobble any more.
There can also be an issue where you run out of height adjustment range if you like your action really super low and your fingerboard had been planed a little shallow.
The base plate of the Hipshot is quite thick and some basses have run out of adjustment before the action was low enough to suit the owner.
Also the break angle will be even lower, and wobble may be evident.
So, the Hipshot isn't perfect, but for most users it will be an excellent alternative to the stock unit.
Certainly, it's adjustment range is far superior in height, intonation, and even side to side, and is perfectly easy to use like 'normal' bridges.
I am going to try an aluminum version on my 4003 when I can scrape together the funding.
I have the hipshot on mine. You lose the foam mute, which may or may not be a big deal to you. It isn't capable of bending at the location that tail lift occasionally occurs on the stock tailpiece. Intonation is easier, too, but not as rock solid as the intonation of the stock bridge once set. Trade offs. I like the hipshot well enough to leave it on.
The 4004 resolves almost every issue that people complain about Rickenbackers for, it seems. Binding irritates the forearm (a complaint I've never understood... how do you put that much pressure on your forearm? But whatever)? It doesn't have any binding. Hate the pickup cover? Doesn't have one. Think the 4003's bridge design is terrible? It has a completely different, modern bridge. Can't stand single coil hum? It has humbuckers.
And yet for some reason it doesn't sell as well. Weird.
I like the look of the RIC bridge but that's really the only nice thing I can say about it. I have the same gauge and type stings on most all my Rickenbackers so i can eye ball the saddles and get them real close. A few turns here and there and I'm good to go.
RIC could do a better job in a ton of areas. One area could be a "what not to do" guide. Don't exceed 160 lbs of tension on a 4001 neck, do not attempt to screw with your truss rods if you have no clue about what a "hair pin" truss rod is. Oh, and NEVER ever crank on the three screws under your bridge.
Why, you ask? Well, there is a well routed in the bass that the section with the three screws fits into. There is often an air space between the bottom of the tail piece and the floor of the rout. Tightening these screws causes the well section to be pressed down and puts pressure on the back section of the tail piece, where your strings anchor. Even if you slightly bend this section, string tension will only be too happy to finish what you've started over the course of time.
If RIC just went back to a solid tailpiece it would solve the tail lift controversy.
Sepp
RIC could do a better job in a ton of areas. One area could be a "what not to do" guide. Don't exceed 160 lbs of tension on a 4001 neck, do not attempt to screw with your truss rods if you have no clue about what a "hair pin" truss rod is. Oh, and NEVER ever crank on the three screws under your bridge.
Why, you ask? Well, there is a well routed in the bass that the section with the three screws fits into. There is often an air space between the bottom of the tail piece and the floor of the rout. Tightening these screws causes the well section to be pressed down and puts pressure on the back section of the tail piece, where your strings anchor. Even if you slightly bend this section, string tension will only be too happy to finish what you've started over the course of time.
If RIC just went back to a solid tailpiece it would solve the tail lift controversy.
Sepp
If the rick is an old 4001 you probably get the "chewed frets" issue that many player are always complainning about... In the other hand if you spent several Ks on it, its a minor detail, you can put harder/bigger frets...
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
Here's my take from having owned a 1998 for a few months. The tailpiece is it's own thing, but mine shows no signs of issues. There's a slot under the tailpiece where it doesn't contact the body, but it appears to have been made that way. In any event, there's no sign of cracking on either side of the tailpiece and no sign of instability. The previous owner seems to have been a bit ham fisted about adjusting it, but it is adjusting back in shape just fine. As far as sound, it is hotter than my P, so I have been learning how to eq the amp to deal with it. It currently has TI Jazz flats on it but I may switch to Chromes to get a little brighter sound. That's neither here nor there. As far as fit and finish are concerned, it is very good with the exception of an odd ridge of what seems to be excess glue at the edge of the fretboard. It doesn't bother me and it has no effect on playability or tone, but it is there. I'm learning to like it because it lets me know it is my bass. The other oddity is that the neck binding isn't full depth of the fretboard. Why? I don't know but there it is. The finish is sprayed over the fretboard, too. That seems a little different from anything else, but so it goes. Maybe the neck had issues and got rebuilt. If so, they did a reasonably good job of it because it works just fine.
The bass looks great, sounds great, and is comfortable enough to play. I prefer bigger, chunkier necks in perfect world, but the world isn't perfect so a thin neck isn't such a bad thing.
The bass looks great, sounds great, and is comfortable enough to play. I prefer bigger, chunkier necks in perfect world, but the world isn't perfect so a thin neck isn't such a bad thing.
The 'boards on all 4000/4001/4003 basses were originally sprayed with clearcoat.
Perfectly normal, and looks really nice when polished and waxed.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
OK then it is the way it is supposed to be. good to know. It is plenty glossy, and you are right, it looks great.
Anyway, after all that, I'm very happy with it, and if the choice was between a newer 4003 and an older 4001 for the same price, I would probably go with the newer one, like the one I have.
Anyway, after all that, I'm very happy with it, and if the choice was between a newer 4003 and an older 4001 for the same price, I would probably go with the newer one, like the one I have.
You don't really get to appreciate just how nice the 'board is until you have all of the strings off for a full polish/wax.
The clear really accentuates the beauty and depth of the grain.
The clear really accentuates the beauty and depth of the grain.
You definitely trade intonation stability with the Hipshot. I actually don't mind intonating with the stock tailpiece. A modified screwdriver and turning the bridge around the other way ( Which also requires flipping the saddles) makes it much easier. You can also use washers under the screws to alleviate the lift to some degree. I still contend the design is flawed. I think they could make it out of better material and design it to look identical to the original AND solve the lift issue. The fact is though that if they solved the lift issue, John Hall would have to admit there as an issue in the first place and he will NEVER do that.
I had to use some Loctite blue on the saddle height screws on the Hipshot, but it's pretty stable now.
As far as a new tail design from RIC, I've given up waiting for that to ever come out.
It's been talked about for years now with not even a hint of evidence.
It may well not even exist, or at least is so far back on the burner it fell behind the stove.
As far as a new tail design from RIC, I've given up waiting for that to ever come out.
It's been talked about for years now with not even a hint of evidence.
It may well not even exist, or at least is so far back on the burner it fell behind the stove.
Yeah... I do also somewhat miss the mute, but not enough to want to switch to the stock bridge/tailpiece.
If I ever get a fretless 4003, I'll probably keep the stock bridge/tailpiece. Maybe put in the two extra screws like they had in the 80's, if it doesn't already have them.
