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Rickenfakers on a Chinese website
- Thread starter mooreon131
- Start date
These threads always go the same way.
1) Somebody posts links to some shifty Chinese Wholesale website
2) Lots of people get butthurt about their favorite companies getting their copyrights infringed upon.
3) Overly brand-loyal shills turn up and spew about how the bass will never sound like a real one.
4) More people turn up, asking if said bass will achieve the exact tone Geddy Lee has on some '70s Rush record.
5) More links to dodgy wholesale websites, this time with Rick copies with mudbuckers, mis-shapen bodies, jazz pickups.
6) People chip in about their mate having a Chinese Les Paul that is "not bad".
7)??????
8) Profit!
1) Somebody posts links to some shifty Chinese Wholesale website
2) Lots of people get butthurt about their favorite companies getting their copyrights infringed upon.
3) Overly brand-loyal shills turn up and spew about how the bass will never sound like a real one.
4) More people turn up, asking if said bass will achieve the exact tone Geddy Lee has on some '70s Rush record.
5) More links to dodgy wholesale websites, this time with Rick copies with mudbuckers, mis-shapen bodies, jazz pickups.
6) People chip in about their mate having a Chinese Les Paul that is "not bad".
7)??????
8) Profit!
There is some truth to this. I've noticed too, the Chinese watch this site (and probably others) and shill post sometimes as well. If you check the user who does the post it's always a brand new user on here, sometimes with an asian sort of name, and the English is not even close to how a native speaker would use it, the post seems innocent enough but is just designed to draw attention to the cheap rip-off crap they are looking to screw you on.
Buyer beware, and if you are dumb enough to buy it, well I can't feel really sorry for you if they screw you, because that's what you signed up for. You roll the dice and you take your chances, good luck with that.
This is going to sound strange, but, after viewing the chinese factory video, then watching the Fender and Gibson factory tours, I have to wonder which is more "hand made." Not saying the chinese instruments are better, I did notice nothing was shown in the quality control dept, but "most" of the work shown was done by hand. The basic construction techniques were similar, cutting multiple blanks, etc, but in the Fender and Gibson factories, they use cnc machines to cut the blanks. A lot of the hand work was the same, from rough sanding to final finish. I did notice in the Fender video, at every step in the construction, there was someone with a micrometer making sure everything was up to spec. Applause for that step.
I also noticed a few "safety concerns" in the chinese factory vid. (The chinese painters had little protection, while the US guys wore full protection.)
Again, I stress, I'm not condoning the chinese instuments, they do use "cheap" labour, electronics and materials and everybody was working their butts off, (but that might have been for the camera.)
I did have a bit of a guffaw at the "expert setup" but they're trying, at least. This is also proably not the factory the counterfiet instruments are coming from. The narrator admits, they are copies, but also suggests they can make custom units to "your specs."
As far as the bogus Rics, and other brands from the chinese goes, I don't agree with that, as they are trying to rip off the OEM, and I think it will cheapen the market for the real thing. (That may be a good thing for us "poor" musicians.
)
All I'm really saying is, the manufacturing process is more "hands on" than machine made in the chinese shop in the posted video, which I've always been told is more desireable. I suppose that applies more to boutique instruments, than mass produced units.
"Flame on"
I also noticed a few "safety concerns" in the chinese factory vid. (The chinese painters had little protection, while the US guys wore full protection.)
Again, I stress, I'm not condoning the chinese instuments, they do use "cheap" labour, electronics and materials and everybody was working their butts off, (but that might have been for the camera.)
I did have a bit of a guffaw at the "expert setup" but they're trying, at least. This is also proably not the factory the counterfiet instruments are coming from. The narrator admits, they are copies, but also suggests they can make custom units to "your specs."
As far as the bogus Rics, and other brands from the chinese goes, I don't agree with that, as they are trying to rip off the OEM, and I think it will cheapen the market for the real thing. (That may be a good thing for us "poor" musicians.
) All I'm really saying is, the manufacturing process is more "hands on" than machine made in the chinese shop in the posted video, which I've always been told is more desireable. I suppose that applies more to boutique instruments, than mass produced units.
"Flame on"
Cheap certainly, but that doesn't mean it's a "ripoff". If you buy a faux Fender for 1/8th of the price of a genuine one, and it’s only a third as good as an original, you’re actually ahead of the game from as value perspective, right? The only people possibly getting "ripped off" are the bonafide manufacturers that are getting their trademarks infringed on, and even in that respect the manufacturers/distributors in question here aren’t breaking any laws where they happen to be located.
Don’t point fingers at the Asian manufacturers/distributors, they are only doing what they do so well; making cheap copies of existing products by cutting corners and taking advantage of the labor pool they have access to.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a Chinese importer commissioning knock off instruments like the ones in this thread or the same Asian manufacturers building licensed Fender, GK, Ampeg, etc. (And that list is growing every day...) gear commissioned by the actual legitimate copyright holder.
I know for a certainty that all of the Asian manufacturers referred to this thread are capable of, and in most cases in fact do produce quality merchandise, I’m not insinuating that they can’t/don’t.
However they also have the resources to manufacture “passable” goods CHEAP (in every sense of the word) and CHEAP is the bottom line for the products being referred to here.
The desire of US and European purchasers to sport a “brand name” without paying much money is the reason such things exist; don’t put the cart before the horse.
I won’t even get into the psychology behind the reason anyone would feel compelled to “pretend” they have something they don’t; might hit a little too close to home for a large percentage of forum members.
Again, don’t blame the manufacturers/distributors. All they are doing is capitalizing on the consumers “Wal-Mart mentality”. That’s what manufacturers/distributors are supposed to do; exploit a demand for maximum return, that's the measure of their success in their chosen livelihood.
No one is forcing the US consumer buy a knock off Ricky, or even a “legit” but likely similar quality Squier, Ampeg, GK, etc. product; the consumer is simply largely unwilling to pony up for the “Real McCoy” and the current economic conditions are just fueling this fire even brighter.
If the market for these lower quality dirt cheap contracted goods didn’t exist neither would the cheap goods.
So, I don’t think it’s a “ripoff”, I believe the actual intrinsic value may very often be better on these Asian imports than on the real item.
All I’m really trying to point out is that the source for these items isn’t the problem; it’s the reason(s) these sources even exist that is that should be under scrutiny.
Cheap certainly, but that doesn't mean it's a "ripoff". If you buy a faux Fender for 1/8th of the price of a genuine one, and its only a third as good as an original, youre actually ahead of the game from as value perspective, right? The only people possibly getting "ripped off" are the bonafide manufacturers that are getting their trademarks infringed on, and even in that respect the manufacturers/distributors in question here arent breaking any laws where they happen to be located.
Dont point fingers at the Asian manufacturers/distributors, they are only doing what they do so well; making cheap copies of existing products by cutting corners and taking advantage of the labor pool they have access to.
It doesnt matter if its a Chinese importer commissioning knock off instruments like the ones in this thread or the same Asian manufacturers building licensed Fender, GK, Ampeg, etc. (And that list is growing every day...) gear commissioned by the actual legitimate copyright holder.
I know for a certainty that all of the Asian manufacturers referred to this thread are capable of, and in most cases in fact do produce quality merchandise, Im not insinuating that they cant/dont.
However they also have the resources to manufacture passable goods CHEAP (in every sense of the word) and CHEAP is the bottom line for the products being referred to here.
The desire of US and European purchasers to sport a brand name without paying much money is the reason such things exist; dont put the cart before the horse.
I wont even get into the psychology behind the reason anyone would feel compelled to pretend they have something they dont; might hit a little too close to home for a large percentage of forum members.
Again, dont blame the manufacturers/distributors. All they are doing is capitalizing on the consumers Wal-Mart mentality. Thats what manufacturers/distributors are supposed to do; exploit a demand for maximum return, that's the measure of their success in their chosen livelihood.
No one is forcing the US consumer buy a knock off Ricky, or even a legit but likely similar quality Squier, Ampeg, GK, etc. product; the consumer is simply largely unwilling to pony up for the Real McCoy and the current economic conditions are just fueling this fire even brighter.
If the market for these lower quality dirt cheap contracted goods didnt exist neither would the cheap goods.
So, I dont think its a ripoff, I believe the actual intrinsic value may very often be better on these Asian imports than on the real item.
All Im really trying to point out is that the source for these items isnt the problem; its the reason(s) these sources even exist that is that should be under scrutiny.
I'm sorry but it really is a rip off in the sense that they are violating copyright laws (that's a whole different story). And if you don't like the bass because you get it and see it's a cheap piece of junk, which is what you paid for I admit, but if you don't like it and want your money back as they promise, good luck, what are you going to do if they don't give it back, go over there and sue them? Yeah, sure. Even if you did have the time and money to waste, wanna wager the odds you'd win in a Chinese court?
So I guess we gotta agree to disagree on this one.
Also I disagree on the whole Walmart mentality thing. Our manufacturers went over there well before we had that to take advantage of the cheap labor. Now people here are barely eking out a living in many cases and they have little choice but to do the Walmart thing.
I was saying years ago, that this was going to happen because as they destroyed the middle class here, inevitably they were going to find it difficult to sell their products, after all, how are their slaves going to afford to buy what they produce, who do they sell to? It's really obvious that today the economy is in a vicious circle, where you have killer unemployment and underemployment and consumers digging in and business always feeling the pressure to cut, and it just feeds on itself. No one has any idea how to fix this, that I've ever heard. Tax cuts for the "job creators" hasn't done it, huge stimulus programs haven't done it, frankly the only thing that can really "fix" it is employed people with a decent standard of living who can and do buy stuff. But how do you get there? Another story. But, I wouldn't really put all the blame on the people, their jobs all went overseas and now they work at Walmart so they gotta shop where they work for the discount
I'm sorry but it really is a rip off in the sense that they are violating copyright laws (that's a whole different story). And if you don't like the bass because you get it and see it's a cheap piece of junk, which is what you paid for I admit, but if you don't like it and want your money back as they promise, good luck, what are you going to do if they don't give it back, go over there and sue them? Yeah, sure. Even if you did have the time and money to waste, wanna wager the odds you'd win in a Chinese court?
So I guess we gotta agree to disagree on this one.
Also I disagree on the whole Walmart mentality thing. Our manufacturers went over there well before we had that to take advantage of the cheap labor. Now people here are barely eking out a living in many cases and they have little choice but to do the Walmart thing.
I was saying years ago, that this was going to happen because as they destroyed the middle class here, inevitably they were going to find it difficult to sell their products, after all, how are their slaves going to afford to buy what they produce, who do they sell to? It's really obvious that today the economy is in a vicious circle, where you have killer unemployment and underemployment and consumers digging in and business always feeling the pressure to cut, and it just feeds on itself. No one has any idea how to fix this, that I've ever heard. Tax cuts for the "job creators" hasn't done it, huge stimulus programs haven't done it, frankly the only thing that can really "fix" it is employed people with a decent standard of living who can and do buy stuff. But how do you get there? Another story. But, I wouldn't really put all the blame on the people, their jobs all went overseas and now they work at Walmart so they gotta shop where they work for the discount
This is true, mostly because as I said the manufacturers arent violating any U.S. Copyright laws. They can build anything they want in most Asian locations, U.S. Copyright laws dont apply. Their only potential issues are with marketing the counterfeit products in the countries where the copyrights in question are valid/enforced. The internet doesnt count, the websites in question originate in areas where the practices are either totally legal or otherwise completely unenforceable.
Caveat Emptor; these temptingly priced counterfeits are not legal to import into the US. I kind of assumed everyone would realize that before they paid $200 for a Rickenbacker 4003. In that situation, its the buyer who is acting as the importer and therefore the person who is actually violating copyright laws.
As far as returning it, as you said its what you paid for. Buy a real Ricky and you will enjoy the protection of the US laws and regulations.
I didnt mean anything negative about the Wal-Mart mentality, Ive shopped there myself. Like the Asian manufacturers, retailers like Wal-Mart also do what they need to do to exploit their chosen market niche and stay profitable. IMO, thats their job and more power to them. By the same token, rather than being a last ditch no other choice option, the price driven big box retailers are very often the most practical choice for goods regardless of a persons personal financial situation.
Wal-Mart was one of the first retailers who recognized and capitalized on the potential for importing Asian, most often Chinese goods when the US opened the trade floodgates a decade ago. The established US brand manufacturers followed suit soon after, and now its hard to find goods produced elsewhere, or priced as competitively.
The consumer has become accustomed to this bargain pricing, and thats what I am referring to as the Wal-Mart mentality; no offence intended to anyone.
Its no secret that the US economic situation is pretty dismal, and its hard to see an easy answer. Its also disturbing and a little surprising to me that in the last couple of years we have gone from the frying pan into fire in a big way, but this isnt the forum for that type of discussion.
I dont think anyone blames the people, for the current economy, but in this discussion about Chinese basses, IMO any grief a person experiences by trying to get a high quality, branded instrument with satisfaction guaranteed as it would be with most high dollar non counterfeited products is self incurred.
NOT the fault of the overseas manufacturers/distributors.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Them poor slaves are adding 2000 new cars per week on the streets of Shanghai alone. Keep believing your mythology of what's going on in China. Their economy is booming.
Forty five new airports will open before 2020 to meet travel demand of these "slaves". Resorts are popping up all over the place. Smart phone sales in China outstrips the world. Life is pretty damn good for them slaves. General Motors will sell more cars, this year, in China than in the USA.
Wake up people!
Wake up people!
I was
at the safety issues in the Chinese factory tour. Those guys applying clear coat had zero protection!Duke21 said:
+1 to this. As a licensced fender product, fender would have handed over schematics, specifications, and blueprints to the manufacturer. That, as well as supervision from a massive buyer like fender, would ensure some quality standards.
My buddy is an "Ace" in a KISS tribute band. He wanted a Gibson shaped Ace Frehley LP. he got one from China for less that $300. After a setup and pickup swapout, he was pleased with what he got. (Shrugging)
Yeah like nothing in your house is from China. Lol!
Also, Gibson should offer something that looks like a Gibson, that is affordable. The Ace Frehley Epiphone LP is hideous. Fender makes MIJ versions of their stuff. Why can't Gibson?
Just got one of the Tradetang Rics today and it is REALLY nice. Came faster than anything I've ordered from Musicians friend too.
Who was the seller? Like ebay, there's thousands of sellers on there & likewise, some are scumbags & some are not (nevermind the general assertion that anyone copying a Ric is in that catagory).
If the seller is reputable and the bass is actually decent quality, how about an in depth review with some photos along with the seller's name?
I bought from the seller "factorybelt". Took it to band practice last night and it sounded great, lots of bottom but really crisp highs. I was surprised at how much I liked the tone. I have not had time to set it up yet and will probably put flats on it. I don't know much about rics so I can't really compare it. The biggest difference though would be that its not a neck through. The volume pots aren't wired right since either one cuts all the volume when both pickups are selected. Easy fix. Its a nice bass, well worth the price and the case is good too.
Update: After making this thread, I was flagged for advertising. I accept that I was penalized for (apparently) breaking a rule that I agreed to by signing up, but I just want to let it be known that I was not trying to advertise these sites, I buy American for as many things as possible, instruments being one of them. I was just curious about the site, and the fakes. Also I am not Chinese. I would like to think I have a reasonable command of the English language, as well as someone from Baltimore can have, anyways. Just wanted to throw all that out there, and Lillo, I'm not trying to attack you, or single you out, I just thought your post would be a good launch point for me saying all this.
