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RIP Mike Starr (formerly of Alice in Chains)

#21
Intenzity said:
Wow TRichards, it must be nice to be so confident and yet so wrong...

Your personal opinion, because that's all it is, disagrees with the American Medical Association, and just about every medical and psychological body there is as far as what addiction is or is not. So yea, you are wrong.

So that's great you have anointed yourself a medical professional, but you are just perpetuating the ignorance and cliches of people who stay uneducated and uniformed about addiction.

I guess like a lot of things on talk bass, a lot of folks who dont know anything about a topic but think they do just talk out of their ass about it as if they are an authority on it.
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+1 on all accounts
 
#22
yeah guys,.. lets not pass judgement on anyone with an addiction. people get there for every other reason under the sun. we all know someone who may have been perscribed a medication that led to something harder.

not everyone decided to become a junkie. i feel sorry for those victims on both sides of drug abuse. a split second decision will put you in jail,... it doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad person.

Mike made a mistake that ultimately took his life so i do have sympathy.

R.I.P. Brother!!!
 
#25
The thing that struck me is this

Bass Player mags Facebook page had an AIC video in honor of Mikes passing, and as I'm watching it it struck me, there's Layne, Dead, there's Mike, dead. Half the band gone.
 
#26
i'm not going to comment because i got into a world of **** in the paul gray thread. however, i do respect that he didn't leave a pregnant wife behind, and really only caused problems for himself.
 
#27
Intenzity said:
Wow TRichards, it must be nice to be so confident and yet so wrong...

Your personal opinion, because that's all it is, disagrees with the American Medical Association, and just about every medical and psychological body there is as far as what addiction is or is not. So yea, you are wrong.

So that's great you have anointed yourself a medical professional, but you are just perpetuating the ignorance and cliches of people who stay uneducated and uniformed about addiction.

I guess like a lot of things on talk bass, a lot of folks who dont know anything about a topic but think they do just talk out of their ass about it as if they are an authority on it.
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For YOUR information, I am in medicine. And I deal with addicts. And I know all about the consensus opinion in medicine, of course. But beyond that, I have been an addict myself. Hardcore. And I will tell you this: it IS ultimately a decision. A diffucult, agonizing one...but a decision no less. You are the one that chooses to buy dope, swallow, snort, smoke, or shoot it. Regardless of how compelling that urge is. I cleaned up - cold turkey, after a health scare. And I`m not the most strong - willed person, so I know others can do it. And before anyone gets off on the whole genetic side of the debate, both sides of my family are prone to addiction; I lost a brother to it. So, do I know, or am I "talking out of my ass" ? Quite the contrary, sir. Those here who know me know I do not often make vehement claims. But Mike Starr - and ALL addicts have a choice available, regardless of their background, genetics, social circles, money, enablers, etc. He chose wrong, unfortunately, one too many times. I know it`s a tough thing to beat, but to label it as something unavoidable or incurable is wrong, which I think was Richard`s point. It is tragic, and I do feel sympathetic to those who lose, but there are effective treatments available...Celebrity Rehab isn`t one of them. Neverless, RIP Mike Starr. Hopefully he is at peace now.
 
#31
The problem is a disease and once it starts it's extremely difficult for someone to get out of and what's more you don't know the personal circumstances of his life and what drove him in that direction, some people have horrible pasts they're trying to escape and any escape is a good one. Some people just can't deal with life.

It may not start as a disease but it becomes one, no one wants to get to that stage. Life becomes a very desperate and depressing state of affair for these people, it's not party time.

My mother was a drug counselor when i was young and i heard some horrible stories and met some really GOOD people.

I feel for him and his family and yeah i think you're being extraordinarily simplistic in your view, don't judge anyone until you've walked a million miles in their mockersons.


TRichardsbass said:
I don't think he is oversimplifying it. Substance abuse is not a disease you contract, or a germ or virus you accidently get. it is a conscious choice period. I have my vices, but have always aired on the legal side. I have never even thought of putting a needle in my arm, smoking something addictive, or putting anything that was known to screw you up in my system.

I like others mourn his passing and send my deepest sympathy to his family, as all deaths are a great loss. But I have to also agree that these self-created and inflicted addictions and abuses should not be just dismissed nor shoulld they get a pass because someone famous passes.

R.I.P. All the young guys and gals here on TB, take note. This is not how you wish to be remembered.

tom
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#32
As for addiction being a disease.. Mike was not "at ease" therefore he was in "dis-ease" See # 3


–noun
1.
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2.
any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3.
any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4.
decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
 
#34
RIP Mike Starr.

Nothing to do with Mike but drug use in general.....

I know the dangers of sticking a needle in my arm. I, therefore, have never done it. Once an individual makes the CHOICE to engage in hard drugs they are entering a world and lifestyle that typically does not well. And I don't just mean death.

My father was an alcoholic. So I have lived through a horrible addiction. Addictions take a huge toll on the families around the addicted.

But.....

Later in his life we started hearing how it was a "disease" and while I know that the medical world calls addiction a disease, IMO, it is a prevantable disease. One that starts with a choice. I have chosen to drink in moderation and to not do hard drugs. I doubt I will end up with an addiction disease if I do not make that first choice to engage in the behaviour that leads to addiction.

I am not a saint but I also know we enabled my father's behaviour by making excuses for him and covering for him. That's just what you did 30 years ago.
 
#35
Weather or not you believe addiction is a disease or a choice, one thing is for sure, if you chose not to do drugs you won't become addicted!

I believe that addicts have a personality disorder that makes them more susceptible, so they are born as addicts, but they chose to do drugs. It's sad, I have played for years with an incredibly talented musician who battles heroin addiction. He's doing very good now but he could have just as easily ended up like Layne or Mike.
 
#37
Geddyfleaharris said:
One that starts with a choice. I have chosen to drink in moderation and to not do hard drugs. I doubt I will end up with an addiction disease if I do not make that first choice to engage in the behaviour that leads to addiction.
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This is where my opinion and yours differ. An addict doesn't KNOW they're going to be an addict until its too late.

To take your example, you drink in moderation. I'm sure thats how every alcoholic started off, but thats when the addiction takes over. You've made the same initial choice as the addict - to put that chemical into your system, the difference is that for some reason or another, you can control how much of it you consume, the same isn't true for the addict, but by the time the addict has worked out they're not able to control themselves the way you can, they've already succumbed to the addiction.


Some of the holier-than-thou attitudes in this thread really are shocking (Not directed at you Geddyfleaharris). I really can't believe some people believe addiction is as simple as, "well he chose to start taking drugs.....what did he expect!?". Maybe its something I'm a little more sensitive about, since I've not-too-recently kicked a couple of addictions of my own. It might be foolish trying whatever illicit chemical you get addicted to, but no one wakes up with a smile on their face and shoots up heroin over breakfast. There are always underlying issues there and its always a slope of relatively, "harmless" drugs leading up to the more problematic drugs. Its usually a form of escapism and if you're lucky enough to either have nothing to escape from, or the mental fortitude to deal with the things you have, then thats great for you, but not all people have great coping skills. Its often a vicious circle that you don't realise you're in until its way too late. I'd like to talk in a lot more detail about it, but I don't really think this is the place to do it.

My own understanding of drug addiction comes from personal experience, training in drugs counselling and education as a chemist, so I'm not just working on total supposition. Some seem to be.
 

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