Roadworn Basses Opinions

[SanDiegoHarry]

Can't you understand that some RW bass owners that contribute in this thread clearly explain that the reason they chose the bass is not always about the visual design?
I don't understand why do you have to be so hard and loud and repeating in stating your dislike - although at the same time you always close with something like:
" I say EMBRACE IT. Own the Fake!".... ..."You want to play a fake old bass? Great"....

It's like, say, - I see you just start a new NBD thread about your new Sadowsky,..congrats - it's like if somebody comment about his dislike of your bass in that your thread.
Once maybe is no problem. but if he/she keep repeating and try hard to be loud in his/her statement that he/she doesn't like your bass...I don't understand that.

I'm sorry my english is not good enough, much less to be involved in long conversation, choice of words, etc, but that's what I think..

As it happens, I wouldn't care a bit if someone found fault with me, a mediocre journeyman spending all that money on a Sadowsky. It is what it is. Just like a bass that is, by designed, supposed to fool people into thinking it's something that it is not is what IT is. You dig those basses? Cool. Great. Enjoy. They just seem... false to me. Simple as that.

 

[bh2]

I get really fed up with all the relic bashers on this forum and normally steer clear of threads like these when the bashing arrives...
The RWs are great instruments period.

People can play what they like... who cares?

 

[bluesdogblues]

I get really fed up with all the relic bashers on this forum and normally steer clear of threads like these when the bashing arrives...
The RWs are great instruments period.

People can play what they like... who cares?

Yeah there are some close minded people - sometime arrogant, albeit covered with some twisted words - in TB. Sad

 

[pedroims]

As it happens, I wouldn't care a bit if someone found fault with me, a mediocre journeyman spending all that money on a Sadowsky. It is what it is. Just like a bass that is, by designed, supposed to fool people into thinking it's something that it is not is what IT is. You dig those basses? Cool. Great. Enjoy. They just seem... false to me. Simple as that.

Wait ! You own a Sadowsky? Those are Fenders copies right? Pretending to own a Fender, what a posser

 

[Locky66]

It would be easy to spot the bass players who bash others for buying something that looks older than it is. These same people must go out and buy the darkest, stiffist, un-prewashed jeans at the store.

 

[Goatrope]

I've liked the feel and sound of every road worn bass I've tried. I don't own one, though.

I don't understand the resentment at all. The word "damaged" was thrown about in a couple of particularly tearful posts. Obviously that person believes a road worn finish causes "loss of value" and or "impairment of usefulness" (from the definition). I don't agree. It's just an optional finish as was stated earlier.

Rock it if you like it.

 

[bluesdogblues]

Wait ! You own a Sadowsky? Those are Fenders copies right? Pretending to own a Fender what a posser

Yes, that's about what I mean. But if, say, somebody keep posting comments like that in his very thread - hard, loud and repeating - .... I won't understand.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

It would be like that if cars with rust & broken glass were perceived as "cool" by anyone - which they are not. If we're using cars as a metaphor, then I'd say they're more like economy cars that are lowered and have racing stripes loud exhausts - all show, no go. You're trying to look like something you are not.

Oddly, when all of these so-called "vintage road worn" instruments were commonly seen in bands, many folks were rushing to refinish them because they didn't want to play work out instruments; That the old Fender finishes did not hold up well *and* folks didn't treat them very well was not considered a good thing until these same instruments became valuable - at which point, the strat with the cig burn, the p-bass with the pick gouges suddenly were cool. Okay, cool to some.

In the end, it's all about what you like. I like playing high-quality well maintained gear. I have never wanted to own/play/be seen with old worn out gear.

I agree. I wear a cover over my belt buckle. I wipe down my bass when I am done with it. I like keeping my gear looking good. To some the road worn may look good, but I am not a fan either.

 

[Pajama_Bottoms]

A simulcrum is not fake, it is hyperreal.

 

[One Drop]

So here's the question: When someone is right, does that mean he's condescending or you're being touchy?

The whole point is that if you are discussing aesthetics, there is no right or wrong.

As mentioned earlier aesthetics are a small part or not a part at all of why most of us here are defending the instruments in question.

Condescension has nothing to do being right or wrong either, it is a description if how one's learning is worn and how one treats a fellow being.

What we have here is a bunch of people trying to describe their experiences with these instruments, good and bad, and a minority who cannot stand that anyone has a different opinion if the aesthetics or the importance if the aesthetics when considering if these instruments are worth considering for their needs.

There is a reason such a specific rule was made here, because every bloody thread that even has the word Relic in it attracts a few rabid arbiters of taste who think they can speak for everyone else, and who seem to share the same delusion that anyone really cares about their tastes.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Remember folks- we do not allow bashing of reliced instruments or their owners here. If you've got a snide comment, keep it to yourself.

 

[hdracer]

As it happens, I wouldn't care a bit if someone found fault with me, a mediocre journeyman spending all that money on a Sadowsky. It is what it is. Just like a bass that is, by designed, supposed to fool people into thinking it's something that it is not is what IT is. You dig those basses? Cool. Great. Enjoy. They just seem... false to me. Simple as that.

Isn't a Sadowsky a fake Fender?

No fool like a old fool.....

 

[ShoeManiac]

The relic phenomenon with musical instruments has it's roots in more real world concerns than trying to fool people. It started at places like the Fender Custom Shop.

The goal? To accurately replicate the vintage instruments of some of their high-end clients. Because an old instrument that someone has played for decades fits their hands perfectly, like that old leather jacket or pair of well broken in jeans.

Why? Because over time some of those vintage instruments had become somewhat fragile. They've been through significant wear that made them okay for environments like the recording studio, but prolonged periods on the road were taking their toll. Just the changes in climate alone from venue to venue can lead to wood expansion that results in finish checking and neck warping. Consider dealing with that on an instrument that is 40, 50 or 60 years old, and it can become a major undertaking that's not feasible in the amount of time that's involved in the schedules of touring bands.

The solution? Master builders at shops like the Fender Custom Shop documented in painstaking detail the measurements and specs of these old instruments. They would then build an exact replica of the vintage instrument for their client. In a number of cases the new instrument is put together more solidly because it has tighter joints, cleaner solder connections, etc. In an effort to make the new replica look like the original the builders would even distress the finish to resemble the original exactly, with every check in the body and the exact same wear pattern on the neck. This meant that the artists could now retire the vintage instrument to their home and the studio, while taking the relic replica on the road.

The unintended consequences of this sort of build? Shops like the Fender Custom Shop learned that wear patterns on instruments tended to be very similar on a range of instruments. And surprisingly people seemed to like the idea of a new instrument that had the look of an instrument that had been around the block, but didn't necessarily have 40+ years worth of problems, mods and the like. Plus, when looking at design trends across a range of products, you find that people like distressed looks in a number of unrelated products, like furniture, flooring, clothing and more.

What else did the Custom Shop learn? People REALLY like relic finishes. So much that many of the Master Builders and the Fender Custom Shop are actually a little tired of doing them. And it has also led to other shops like Nash, Bluesman Vintage, ESP and Sandberg doing instruments with relic finishes. So Fender took it upon themselves to offer a relic line that was Made in Mexico. The builders from the Fender Custom Shop went to the factory in Mexico and taught the builders there how to do relic finishes. And making them in Mexico also made sense from a business standpoint, since shooting Nitro finishes in California is prohibitive from an environmental standpoint. This may also be part of the reason why American Vintage instruments are a bit expensive.

So, still don't like instruments with a relic finish? Fine. But do you think a strong opinion against them is going to sway anyone? Really? I laid out my reasons for playing a Road Worn Jazz several pages back. And I feel very secure in my decision to play one. Because it plays amazingly well and sounds great.

 

[hdracer]

Because it plays amazingly well and sounds great.

This is all that needs to be said.

 

[FFTT]

A pre-warn fast neck doesn't bother me as much as knowingly buying a bass with rusted and pitted hardware and over the top distressing of the finish, to the point where the bass appears neglected or abused.

This is honest wear on a 50 year old bass after well over 900 shows.

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[Classic69]

I had a Nash PB-55; really nice bass, fantastic Lollar S/C; great feel to it. It was one of his medium-level relics. I bought it mainly because I wanted a s/c early P-Bass, and this one sounded and felt fantastic.
Very good value for the $$ too.

So one day, I made a too-fast move on a small stage and hit the lower horn on a mic stand...
"*&^%^%$#" I said; "I dented my bass!"

Hey, wait a minute....

Maybe a good reason that a R/W or relic'd bass is an asset?

Besides- That bass looked super-cool, (distressed) Blonde finish & all...

 

[Pajama_Bottoms]

What else did the Custom Shop learn? People REALLY like relic finishes. So much that many of the Master Builders and the Fender Custom Shop are actually a little tired of doing them. And it has also led to other shops like Nash, Bluesman Vintage, ESP and Sandberg doing instruments with relic finishes. So Fender took it upon themselves to offer a relic line that was Made in Mexico. The builders from the Fender Custom Shop went to the factory in Mexico and taught the builders there how to do relic finishes. And making them in Mexico also made sense from a business standpoint, since shooting Nitro finishes in California is prohibitive from an environmental standpoint. This may also be part of the reason why American Vintage instruments are a bit expensive.

A copy without an original, a simulacrum. Nash is the perfect example - the build only "aged" instruments, instruments that simulate what their instruments WOULD be like with age. But there is no original; there is no Nash instrument WITHOUT age. The aging of the instrument is a sign without meaning; they have created a copy of something that never existed.

The third stage masks the absence of a profound reality, where the simulacrum pretends to be a faithful copy, but it is a copy with no original. Signs and images claim to represent something real, but no representation is taking place and arbitrary images are merely suggested as things which they have no relationship to. Baudrillard calls this the "order of sorcery", a regime of semantic algebra where all human meaning is conjured artificially to appear as a reference to the (increasingly) hermetic truth.

This is not a criticism directed at reliced instruments; more of an observation of how strange our society is, that an entire company can exist and people can earn their livings making a product that's an old version of something they never made new, that is itself a copy of another company's aged copy, that is itself a copy of an original that was once new. And that that product may very well be better than the original ever was.

 

[Classic69]

But there is no original; there is no Nash instrument WITHOUT age. The aging of the instrument is a sign without meaning; they have created a copy of something that never existed.

I'm not so sure about your logic and phrasing with regard to Nash Basses...
It's pretty clear that they are made as, and labeled as aged Fender basses ("PB-57; "JB-63").
Those basses existed, and Nash re-creates them, obviously not calling them "Fenders" because he can't!

I agree that collector/resale value aside, I would probably rather play my former Nash PB-55 than an original Fender of that year- It was lighter, and the Lollar s/c delivered!

 

[ShoeManiac]

Nash actually has worked with artists with the goal of replicating their vintage instruments. And they have done this with some very high profile musicians. Does the fact that Nash did not produce the original instrument invalidate their craftsmanship on the relic replica? Does it make the Nash instrument play any less well, or have a different sonic characteristic?

At some point you need to divorce yourself from a semantic argument and deal in something tangible, like the final product.

 

[pedroims]

more of an observation of how strange our society is.

Do you think our society is strange because some individuals likes replicas of something that was build in the past? I find more disturbing that some members of our society does not understand that diversity is inherent to the human race, so the things that each individual like or dislike.