Rock amp - hard choice (Orange/Ampeg/Ashdown)

[Triad]

Hello! I'm actually in the mood for an amp change... I actually have a G&K MB200 and a couple of pretty "hi-fi" cabs.
In the last months I started playing with a pick and this completely changed my approach to the instrument and, of course, my needs as a bassist.
I'm considering to build a "rock" rig while keeping a modern, smaller one for bass testing etc.
I'm gonna build a 6 or 8x10" cab loaded with Eminence Alpha (sealed) and now I'll have to find the right amp to sit on top of the upcoming monster.
Be aware I can't try before I buy, the local shops only carry Markbass and a few other brands but nothing interesting for me.
The competitors are:

1) Orange Terror Bass 500 (or even 1000, the price difference isn't huge);

2) Ashdown Spyder 550 or 330 (they'd both be enough with the 8x10" but again, the price difference isn't big;

3) Ampeg SVT3Pro (used);

4) Ashdown Little Bastard (the only ALL TUBE amp in the lot of the competitors due to the friendly price);

I'm looking for something that could get gritty and dirty sounding, powerful enough for small gigs (but with such a big cab I don't think I'd have troubles even with a small wattage). I'm actually using a BDI on the MB200 and it makes the sound much more desirable to my ears (for pick playing).
Any advice? The budget as you can see is around €500. The prices are €575 for the Orange, 450 for the Spyder 550, about €500 for the Bastard, about €500-550 for an used SVT.
I don't use the DI much but I read it's a weak point on the Orange (too hot).
Any idea?

 

[Musicman20]

Bass Terror, 100%

 

[Triad]

Really? I've made an extensive research and there are several different opinion about the build quality and the sound.
Some say that it's nice looking and well built, others say it's really cheaply made and that the chassis and all the metal parts are weak...
About the sound, some say that it's pretty versatile and some others say it has ONE sound, like it or not. I'm confused.

 

[David Jayne]

Can't help with those you are looking at, but I can say the best pick/rock tone for me comes from my 800 RB. I have SWR, GK, pre/power rigs, and a Markbass head and the GK wins hands down.

 

[Triad]

I've played thru a G&K amp months ago but it was connected to a Markbass 4x10" so the tone was compromised
Sounded very "solid" and thick but don't think it's "dirty" enough for what I wanted...
I'm listening to clips of all the heads but can't decide.
Looks like the Spyder 550 and the Terror are in the same league, the difference is mainly into the power stage (traditional VS class D for a difference in weight of about 10kg). The tone of both seems very nice.
Since the cab will be very loud I think I could even get off with the Little Bastard but... no sound clip of it on Thomann site
The Ampeg PF should be pretty too but don't know if the SS preamp can give me what I want.

 

[JimmyM]

If you just want a moderate grind, the PF heads will definitely give you that and they sound darn good doing it.

 

[Triad]

Well, I'd like to be able to get pretty dirty sounds out of it. Now I use a Behringer BDI21 and it works extremely well for what it costs but... if I give away the clarity of the MB200 I want to get extreme

 

[JimmyM]

You're better off using a pedal for that IMHO.

 

[Triad]

Pedal + my actual amp or pedal + a more "rock-oriented" amp?

 

[JimmyM]

Pedal + my actual amp or pedal + a more "rock-oriented" amp?

Sorry but I don't buy into the "rock-oriented amp" thing. Ampegs are allegedly rock oriented and I use them on everything. Either an amp sounds good to you or it doesn't. That's my feeling on the matter, anyway.

Anyway, I don't see that it makes much of a difference whether you use a pedal with an ultra-clean preamp/power amp rig or a tube amp with tons of filth like a Marshall. Whatever sounds good to you is the correct answer.

 

[Triad]

Sure, but I don't have a huge experience with that kind of pedals/preamps.
The BDI sounds good for the price but it's pretty much capable of 1 sound: if you pump the Presence or Drive knob too much you end up hearing the limits of the thing.

Listen to the "Rock" and "Metal" clips on this site... it's pretty much what I meant.

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[dukeorock]

Listen to JimmyM...he's right

I have loved many Ampegs over the years, but the SVT3 aint one of them...played at least 6 different ones...owned one for a minute...just a whimpy awful sounding amplifier. Some Ampegs, like the SVT2 Pro, and VR's rank among my favorite all time amps.

The amps I use and prefer aren't on your list so I won't bore you with my opinions on that

 

[Triad]

I'm pretty new on this side of bass playing, you know... I always used pretty "transparent" sounding amps so I never got much into Ampegs. Owned a 4x8" cab (my first decent rig) but didn't love the sound at the time, not snappy/bright enough for my taste. But it was built like a tank. Only tried an SVP preamp and liked it.

 

[dukeorock]

Also, to add to what Jimmy said...I agree that there's no such thing as a 'rock' amp really...there are rock bass players for sure, but the amp is only a tiny part of that.

I just produced a record on a garage/punk/blues band...very trashy sounds were the goal. They flew in from England and needed me to provide amps, so I set up my main three bass rigs in different combos...a Fender TB1200, Ashdown ABM 500 410 combo, a Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12.0, Fender 810 Pro cab, Genz Uber 212, Genz Uber 410 and we began testing. The band and I agreed, the Genz SM12.0 and the Uber 212 sounded best for the band and I would say out of all the combos we tried, that's the one, on paper, that you would call the least 'rock.'

Boy, that didn't help you at all...sorry!

It sounds to me that when you say 'rock' amp, you really mean 'cool' amp, which is fine...if that's the case, grab the Orange. Indie rock approved

 

[Triad]

LOL! Really not interested in how the thing looks as long as it sounds "good". For "good" I mean... a dirty, gritty sound that I only partly get with the BDI.

 

[dukeorock]

LOL! Really not interested in how the thing looks as long as it sounds "good". For "good" I mean... a dirty, gritty sound that I only partly get with the BDI.

I hear you...tough call. "Good" is in the ear of the beholder, you know? For me these days, light and dependable are the main things I need for touring, so I'm all about the Genz stuff, but I'm an endorser so take that with a grain of salt...for what you're talking about, I'd go with a Genz Streamliner, maybe a pedal if needed...apart from that, I'd look into a GK 1001rb or something like that...love all tube amps, but I want light and dependable on the road. That's me. If you really want that old school all tube thing, there's a reason SVT's have been the most popular bass amp of all time.

 

[JimmyM]

Sure, but I don't have a huge experience with that kind of pedals/preamps.
The BDI sounds good for the price but it's pretty much capable of 1 sound: if you pump the Presence or Drive knob too much you end up hearing the limits of the thing.

Listen to the "Rock" and "Metal" clips on this site... it's pretty much what I meant.

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The 7 Pro is the best non-all-tube bass head I've ever played. Haven't played them all, but I've played a lot, and for me it's about as good as it gets. But the PF heads are also capable of getting that sound when you crank the gain.

EDIT: Genz Benz amps are also quite excellent...just a different tonality from th Ampeg tonality.

 

[bassfootballguy]

Given your choices, I would go either the Ashdown (I had an EBM 500 EVO and it was a fine amp for any style) or the Orange.

 

[dukeorock]

EDIT: Genz Benz amps are also quite excellent...just a different tonality from th Ampeg tonality.

Not the way I play 'em! I think you've heard me play Jimmy...it's kinda caveman for the most part...John Wetton, JJ Brunell, pick, heavy gauge strings...subtle as a flying brick I'm just supporting your point if I understood it correctly, that it's way more the player than the amp...

I still haven't heard a 7Pro, but have heard nothing but rave reviews...gotta hear one of them things!

 

[Triad]

Just played my usual bass (Neo humbucker in P-bass position, more or less, Padouk body, Ovangkol neck and Wengé fingerboard) into the BDI and turned the controls in every possible direction
I must say I'm pretty close to what I want but... on this amp you can't bypass the preamp, maybe it gets in the way?
From what I can say listening to Thomann clips both the Ashdown and the Orange are pretty wild in that aspect but that Ampeg SVT7 roars pretty well too. No way I could ever need 1000w, though.