• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Roger Waters: Pink Floyd

#41
Phlatwounds said:
yeah like you said, "whatever".
We get it, you don't like Roger Waters.
His records sales speaks for his ability. You speak for his inability...I'll go with the record sales thanks.
Click to expand...
Great...so how do you feel about the Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus? They sell lots of records, too.

BTW, I never said I didn't like Roger Waters. I said I thought he was a great writer and arranger who allowed himself to disappear up his own ass by the end of Floyd's original run. Let's get that clear, thank you.
 
#42
The man who inspired me to pick up the bass, not because I thought he was superior to other bassplayers i just found him immensely cool. His songwriting is amazing and in my opinion he was the backbone of Pink Floyd's golden era.
He wears the bass like a king, and has written some really great basslines. Not all of them some technical craziness but they suite his music perfectly.
One of the musical masterminds of the 20th century in my opinion.
 
#43
These "Jonas Bros" and "Miley Cyrus" you speak of...I've never heard of them. They sell CDs??
I actually don't buy the record sales defense per se. In that case, Michael Jackson is the greatest of all time. But dude, I love James Brown in the Devo hat. That's the shiz for real yo. Roger Waters is definitely an egotistical type, kinda like me and Jimmy. I was glad to see Floyd carry on even though I think the early Waters/Gilmour era is up there for some of the greatest rock music of all time. My real serious point is that you have to look at his playing "in context". He simply plays only what is really needed and gives Floyd a lot of space. That is what makes them so unique to me...that eerie space and atmosphere. The jabs are just for fun. I think rock and metal are sorely lacking for great bands like this today. It's depressing really. I long for the days of bands like Floyd and early classic stuff. Everything is so freaking marketed now and so visual. Not many great recordings to sit and get consumed by in rock any more. Now off to get those Jonas and Miley CDs. I hear they are hot!
 
#44
JimmyM said:
Great...so how do you feel about the Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus? They sell lots of records, too.

BTW, I never said I didn't like Roger Waters. I said I thought he was a great writer and arranger who allowed himself to disappear up his own ass by the end of Floyd's original run. Let's get that clear, thank you.
Click to expand...

You also said that he was an "average" bassist.
Most of the people at this forum are average bassists, so in your opinion Roger Waters is just a regular joe that you'ld catch at the local club.
That's absurb and leads me to believe that you (and others) probably never listened to much Floyd to begin with.

*at the risk of becoming a troll, I believe I've voiced my opinion enough on the subject of Roger Waters. You got your opinion and I got mine. I agree to dis-agree.
 
#45
I'm a huge Waters fan, love his songwriting - that said, I don't think there's much denying that he is more than a little egotistical. But I think that all of those facets of his personality, egotistical and humble, contribute to what makes him such an incredible musician.

Not an incredible bassist, I'd say adequate and appropriate for his music, but his magic is writing lyrics and accompanying music that conveys emotion and experience in a really relatable way. I don't think there's much denying that, either.
 
#46
JimmyM said:
OK bassist, average musician, brilliant writer and arranger who disappeared up his own ass by the end of Floyd's run.
Click to expand...


+1000 Jimmy!



Having studied Rogers playing I believe his playing "was really going for it" on piper, and a little less so on saucerful. By the time more and ummagumma he began to focus more on being a songwriter and cared less about being a bass player. David Gilmour began to play bass on some songs around this time. I believe obscured by clouds is the last time we heard Roger play bass on a Pink Floyd studio album.

Having seen Roger in concert, and listening to many "classic era" Pink Floyd bootlegs I can tell you his playing is solid. Even his mistakes are executed with a vengeance.
 
#47
for all of those who dispel roger as a mediocre bassist, remember for all Gilmour probably DID 'record' most of the basslines. it was roger who played live (other than the surrogate band in the wall, and the bits where he just did vox for stage performance like the wall :P).

i have a few bootlegs and the official live stuff, roger definatly put his own slant on those lines but HE played them, and played them great. i have a nice unofficial animals live set and the bass is spot on.

but i see roger more as an exceptional arranger and composer as Jimmym pointed out, those mid albums where gilmour has stated they were crap, i think is one of the better times for floyd. all of the psychedelia mixed with orchestras and triggered programmed synths its great. granted alans psychedelic breakfast is a hard pill to swallow if you are not in the right frame of mind, but the atom heart suite to me is floyd at their best, yeah its ridiculous and way extravagant but it IS GREAT MUSIC.
 
#49
Phlatwounds said:
yeah like you said, "whatever".
We get it, you don't like Roger Waters.
His records sales speaks for his ability. You speak for his inability...I'll go with the record sales thanks.
And did someone above post that they were better, that's the best one I've read in a looong time.
Click to expand...


That was me. I also think I'm a better singer than he is. For all I know I'm a better chess player as well but that's also completely irrelevant.

I think you're missing the point that nearly every poster, including myself, who has said that he is a mediocre bass player has been careful to give him credit as a phenomenal writer and even a genius at his chosen craft of making great concept albums. I don't know why you're so adamant that everyone should agree that he is a better than average bass player or even that he's better than the average TB bass player. Many gigging bass players I know are as good as he is and almost any bass player in a full time professional cover band is going to run circles around him.

Think of it this way. We've all seen cover bands where we're pleasantly surprised when the bass player in that band does a better job than the bassist from the band being covered. But how many times do you find yourself at a bar watching some local band and you say "Wow, he plays the part better than Entwistle/Flea/Claypool/McCartney/Jamerson/Geddy/Jaco/Wooten" or whoever.

You never watch a local band cover a Floyd tune while marveling that the bassist did a better job than Waters.
 
#50
hbarcat said:
Many gigging bass players I know are as good as he is and almost any bass player in a full time professional cover band is going to run circles around him.
Click to expand...

Agreed!

Waters is sort of enigma. I grew up listening to him but was never overly impressed with his playing like I was with Geddy or Sting or Paladino etc. Great songwriter no question and he played some cool parts. I just never get excited about his playing except for a couple of songs. Then again I am a big fan of Post RW floyd and think Guy Pratt is far better.

A lot of this is relative. There are going to be big fans of his that will defend him and guys that are just not impressed. Just like there are posters here who think Kris Novoselic is a God.

I heard that Waters did not play any of the fretless parts on the wall and I did sort of lose a bit of respect for him. Also, I dont see how record sales a relevant to the topic. If that was a factor then Michael Anthony and Adam Clayton would be able to use that too.

Plus when did the whole "he just plays what the song needs" thing start becoming the defense for any bass player. EVERY player plays what the song needs. While I agree that chops are not everything it seems like that is the new way to defend a player and its getting old.
 
#52
No, I just see it as I see it. I would say many guys here are better "players" than Rog. No biggie. So what. Please, lets not get into the whole: who is a better songwriter, who sold more albums, who was on the radio more. It dosent matter because that was not the issue that YOU brought up in this thread. You call him brilliant and seem to indicate he could smoke anyone on here. Myself and many others disagree.

Actually, I have heard the playing of several guys here and I can tell you they are better players than most pros including Rog...Again, dont know what that gets them but it is what it is.

The real question is why do you have to resort to insults and smug crap? Nobody called you a comedian for calling him brilliant. But you need to resort to those tactics to defend your boy?
 
#54
Bruins29 said:
No, I just see it as I see it. I would say many guys here are better "players" than Rog. No biggie. So what. Please, lets not get into the whole: who is a better songwriter, who sold more albums, who was on the radio more. It dosent matter because that was not the issue that YOU brought up in this thread. You call him brilliant and seem to indicate he could smoke anyone on here. Myself and many others disagree.

Actually, I have heard the playing of several guys here and I can tell you they are better players than most pros including Rog...Again, dont know what that gets them but it is what it is.

The real question is why do you have to resort to insults and smug crap? Nobody called you a comedian for calling him brilliant. But you need to resort to those tactics to defend your boy?
Click to expand...

You're missing the point, first of all, what you wrote I find very funny, so I was asking if you were a comedian on the side. There's no tactics involved. It is what it is. You and others are making ridiculous statements which I find amusing, nothing more.
Second he ain't "my boy", I think he's pretty washed up these days, like many other old rockers BUT in his prime his bass playing was pure genius, most songs contained very simple parts and complicated jam parts that required a lot of precise timing and feeling. For you to suggest that there's many here who can do it better is quite frankly one of, if not THE stupidest things I've ever read.
This video is a perfect example, starts simple then goes into a jam in the middle, In live performances he changed what he was playing (like all of them from PF) as the songs went a long and THAT is what I'm talking about. You can't learn this, you either have it or you don't. I'm sure some here can do it as well, but better, like the other guy wrote, I'ld love to hear it. Some of you act like the guy couldn't even tune a bass.
 
#55
Phlatwounds said:
For you to suggest that there's many here who can do it better is quite frankly one of, if not THE stupidest things I've ever read.
Click to expand...

Here's two to start us off :D

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/member.php?u=118755

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/member.php?u=135607



This argument is silly. It's mostly subjective anyway so let's leave it here. Some people like Roger Waters for some reasons, but not others, while some people dislike him for some reasons and not others.
 
#56
Uncle, its no use. This guy is just going to insult everyone here as he believes that Rog is better than everyone on this site. Nothing is going to sway him. I know bass players here that are lightyears better than Roger but no matter what is shown for proof this poster will use record sales, bank accounts, anything to defend good ole Rog including a youtube clip that was anything but impressive. Its just typical of a site like this. People have their favorites and there is no way to make a dent no matter what you show them.
 
#57
Waters: One of the most repetitive bassists? Yes, without a doubt. Were the bass lines cool? Yes without a doubt. Always played simple but unbelievably repetitive basslines, mind numbing repetitiveness for the musician... or for those of us who were listening to the bass. I think most people were listening to the lyrics (and all the good lyrics were Waters), or the guitar, except where the bass is leading the song and then they just think it is the guitar... (but you have to give Gilmore credit for his role as a support guitarist, one of the best). Of course the problem with successful support guitarists is that they.. oh you know I mean.

Waters was pink floyd though.... the inspiration, the drive, the sound, he was the guy.

As a public figure he would be huge now... but in the dark ages of the 70s and 80s there just wasn't any instant communication like there is now.... but you could say that about all those old bands. what happened to the bands of today? there just aren't any big ones anymore it seems, just old ones re-hashing the same **** over and over again.... tons of decent good sounding bands, but nobody taking it to the next level like pink floyd did, the stones, the police, there just aren't any huge new bands anymore - nirvana was as close as we got and they were short lived - literally. sure, the jazz guys and blues are always there but you know what I mean?
 
#59
I was irritated with his staunch and overblown defense of Roger Waters, but now I'm amused by it because it's so ridiculous. I really don't care if I play or sing better than him or not...I can't make a movie better than George Lucas but I still hated the Star Wars movies. I can't host the Tonight Show better than Jay Leno but I still hated it. So what? Get over it.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back