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Roscoe Club

#1,001
KJung said:
I'll pop in here as another data point. I had a nice Lakland 55-76 (their short lived exact MM placement model), that came stock with the Bart MM pickup. While it sounded good, it really didn't cop the more aggressive MM thing very well. It had that strong, warm, low mid present Bart sound that would be very comfortable for those who like the standard dual Bart pickup Roscoe models. Kind of like a 'MM on satin' sort of vibe... smoother ping up top, rounder upper bass response down low.

I had the Seymour MM installed to try to get closer to that MM wide, deep, sizzly sort of tone, and, to my ear, it went a little bit too much in that direction. Massively brighter than the Bart MM (lots of upper midrange), and much wider and less punchy down low. So, too much of a good thing for me with that one. It did the MM series thing VERY well, but to my ear, fell short of the classic MM parallel tone (and of course, without the dummy hum cancelling coil, the single coil setting was unusable. If I remember correctly, the Bart was basically two HC pickups in a single case, which kept it hum cancelling when coil tapped... been a while though. The Seymour was definitely 'single coil' when tapped).

To date, the best sounding MM replacement pickup I've heard is the Nordstrand classic MM model. However, I believe it does not have a series/parallel switch option (I always used my MM in the more classic parallel setting, but for those who dig the grittier, punchier series setting, I don't think it is doable).

So, to my ear, the MM Bart will do the best job of 'flavoring' the Roscoe stock Bart tone toward a more MM thing. The Seymour would take it to a totally different place, and with some pretty extensive EQ, it sounds quite good to me.


Edit: These comparisons were made with the original 3 band Bart preamp used by Lakland, which I believe was a stock preamp.
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I agree that from what I have heard with the Bart MM pickup it definitely has the "Bartolini signature" in the tone, and is a little more subdued in the upper mids/treble than the classic MM sound.

I am guessing the 55-76 was an ash body? Also worth noting is that the Duncan comes in both Alnico and Ceramic versions - what you may have had was the ceramic, the way you describe the tone. Not that any of these things are absolutes, but compared head to head the Duncan SMB-5A (Alnico) and the Nordstrand actually sound very close with the Duncan having a bit more edge and the Nord a bit smoother.

What really sold me on the combo was Jon's tone with the Duncan (ceramic) in a mahogany body Roscoe, the first CS5+M http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f153/d049-monkeyman-855526/

A great example of this can be heard in the last track "Seven Promises" on his band's album: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (buy the album, it's great!) More clips here: http://youtu.be/F7BXL7XPXYE and here: http://youtu.be/Ll9rP7E81ng

Compared to the Monkeyman, my bass has a few differences that will impact tone a bit:
-Alnico vs. Ceramic
-East MM preamp vs. Aguilar OBP-1
-maple/purpleheart/maple neck vs. all maple
-purpleheart fingerboard vs. birdseye maple
-thicker maple top vs. thin monkeypod top (impact may be minimal)

When it arrives in the next couple weeks I'll weigh in with my thoughts :)
 
#1,002
Jeff Moote said:
I agree that from what I have heard with the Bart MM pickup it definitely has the "Bartolini signature" in the tone, and is a little more subdued in the upper mids/treble than the classic MM sound.

I am guessing the 55-76 was an ash body? Also worth noting is that the Duncan comes in both Alnico and Ceramic versions - what you may have had was the ceramic, the way you describe the tone. Not that any of these things are absolutes, but compared head to head the Duncan SMB-5A (Alnico) and the Nordstrand actually sound very close with the Duncan having a bit more edge and the Nord a bit smoother.

What really sold me on the combo was Jon's tone with the Duncan (ceramic) in a mahogany body Roscoe, the first CS5+M http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f153/d049-monkeyman-855526/

A great example of this can be heard in the last track "Seven Promises" on his band's album: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (buy the album, it's great!) More clips here: http://youtu.be/F7BXL7XPXYE and here: http://youtu.be/Ll9rP7E81ng

Compared to the Monkeyman, my bass has a few differences that will impact tone a bit:
-Alnico vs. Ceramic
-East MM preamp vs. Aguilar OBP-1
-maple/purpleheart/maple neck vs. all maple
-purpleheart fingerboard vs. birdseye maple
-thicker maple top vs. thin monkeypod top (impact may be minimal)

When it arrives in the next couple weeks I'll weigh in with my thoughts :)
Click to expand...

Yes, ash body, maple neck. Good point on the different Duncan pickups... I have no idea which one Lakland was using as an option at that point.

Edit: Your description of the Alnico version sounds like it will be KILLER, since the one thing I wish the Nordstrand had was a smidge more bite up top.
 
#1,003
5StringPocket said:
I'd like to see if I could open the tone up a bit, keeping the low end focus but less compressed, and make it a little brighter. What part of the tone is "baked-in" by the choice of woods and what can be done with a different choice of pickups and preamp? I know they interact so the mix 'n match is important.

I'm considering a couple options. The referenced post above is helpful because it addresses similar woods and components. I have a Demeter preamp which I could swap in for the Aggie and that might be the ticket based on the above description. I do like a fat punchy sound as I play more bluesy-rock, alternative, and country than jazz and lighter styles. After playing with the OBP-3 400/800 Hz mid switch I think a single one centered at 550 Hz would be more useful. I'm not sure where the Demeter mid-freq is centered.
Click to expand...

Definitely give the Demeter a try. Especially if you're already got one of James preamp's. I truly believe that it would be the answer to the sound that you're looking for. They sound wonderful in a Roscoe, especially when combined with mahogany (or ash) and wenge.
 
#1,004
Thanks for your quick reply. That combination makes sense.

JOME77 said:
Hey Pete!
I wouldn't change a thing with the bubinga/ash Roscoe. I've heard clips of that one and it's the bee's knees for sure!
IMO the Aggie works better with Spanish cedar because Spanish cedar can almost be too polite sounding. The Aggie really gives it some needed edge.
IMO ash is already quite aggressive, especially on a Roscoe, and the Aggie really takes it over the edge for my tastes. I will say though that you will be heard in a loud mix!

Now the Demeter preamp in an ash Roscoe, that's smooth! :)
Glassy highs and smooth lows and mids. The Demeter really worked great with my mahogany 3006 signature with the wenge wedge neck. It tamed the sound just enough while still allowing it to keep plenty of growl. It combined perfectly with the Roscoe Barts too. Opening up the tone just a bit while still keeping a bit of the natural compression of the Roscoe Barts.

IMO, a Demeter preamp in your 3006 would give you a totally different (and wonderful) flavor of Roscoe to gig with.
Click to expand...

The Roscoe in my avatar is SKB 3005 #5447. It has a mahogany body, burled maple top, wenge wedge neck, wenge fingerboard, and Roscoe Barts with an Aggie OBP-3 preamp. The tone is very focused, a bit dark and growly with singing mids and a touch of compression. This sits quite well in a mix and doesn't get lost in a lot of low end rumble compared to a number of other basses I've heard.

That said, I'd like to see if I could open the tone up a bit, keeping the low end focus but less compressed, and make it a little brighter. What part of the tone is "baked-in" by the choice of woods and what can be done with a different choice of pickups and preamp? I know they interact so the mix 'n match is important.

I'm considering a couple options. The referenced post above is helpful because it addresses similar woods and components. I have a Demeter preamp which I could swap in for the Aggie and that might be the ticket based on the above description. I do like a fat punchy sound as I play more bluesy-rock, alternative, and country than jazz and lighter styles. After playing with the OBP-3 400/800 Hz mid switch I think a single one centered at 550 Hz would be more useful. I'm not sure where the Demeter mid-freq is centered.

Another option, bestbassgear has a Nordstrand DC5 parallel set for Roscoe SKB5 which is a departure from the Roscoe Barts but these seem to be pretty well received. I'm not sure what preamp would work best in this bass but I have an Alien Audio pre with some very cool tonal options that works well with the Nordstrand dual coils. I'm curious as to how that would play out.

Any suggestions or guidance on this would be appreciated.
 
#1,008
Subscribed!:)

And back to the subject at hand .....

Freddels says:

"To change the tone of your Roscoe, I would think the pickups would be the most dramatic way. Even going from Roscoe Barts to CB's might change it up enough for you."

If the bass had the Bart 3-band changing to the Bart CB's might be enough (to open up the sound) but his bass has the Aggie OBP-3 preamp, which IMO is much more aggressive sounding than the Bart pre.
Regardless though, since he has a Demeter preamp that he could try, I'd say go for it!:) I'm telling you, it KILLS in a Roscoe!!! :bassist::bassist::bassist:
 
#1,017
Me and my shorty are in
ImageUploadedByTalkBass1381526743.509753.jpg
 
#1,020
JOME77 said:
Subscribed!:)

And back to the subject at hand .....

Freddels says:

"To change the tone of your Roscoe, I would think the pickups would be the most dramatic way. Even going from Roscoe Barts to CB's might change it up enough for you."

If the bass had the Bart 3-band changing to the Bart CB's might be enough (to open up the sound) but his bass has the Aggie OBP-3 preamp, which IMO is much more aggressive sounding than the Bart pre.
Regardless though, since he has a Demeter preamp that he could try, I'd say go for it!:) I'm telling you, it KILLS in a Roscoe!!! :bassist::bassist::bassist:
Click to expand...

I've never heard (that I know of) any sound samples of the Roscoe Barts and the Demeter. Are there any lurking on the tube?

Damian's Roscoe with the Aggie pre is killer sounding to me. I also like the faded blue jean with the aggie pre in this vid

Also, has anyone tried a Pope preamp in a Roscoe? Not sure if the cavity is deep enough or not.
 

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