Sad news. I have several Roscoe Basses and love them all. Great quality at a good price and superb customer service!
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Roscoe filed for Chapter 11?
- Thread starter 5fingerfrenzy
- Start date
It's always interesting to see what changes are made in a business model for the sake of sustainability. Who knows...maybe we'll be seeing a "Keith Roscoe Design" import series in the future.
Riis
Riis
Typical Internet forum, lots of people droning on an on about something which they know nothing about. The bankruptcy process is quite stringent and overseen meticulously. Hopefully for Keith, everyone involved sees the value in his business going forward and he ends up in a much better place than he is now. Nobody involved wants to see this end up in a chapter 7, liquidations are nightmares for customers, owners and the creditors. And believe it or not, no one on TB can do much to change any of that, except go out and order a bunch of brand new Roscoes.
I’ll comment. I am guessing that the Plek and CNC purchases were made at a time when things were really rolling. Then Covid. It seems like terrible luck to me. I hope they can restructure and get through this.
As far as quality and customer service, I can speak to that. I am a nobody in the middle of nowhere. I have had a few basses built for me. When they were making my first fretless, it was basicaly finished. Gard called me and said hey, there’s this tiny imperfection. We can leave it, we can try to cover it, or we can move you to the front of the line and start over and put your bass as a top priority to finish. I chose to leave it (I did in another build as well with a mark on the fingerboard but I like those, gives the bass character and something unique) which he figured I would. But to give me the option of starting from scratch and being first in line, that’s awesome. And I’m not an artist or endorsing pro. That speaks volumes to me. And hopefully, that is the kind of service and dedication that will get them through this.
As far as quality and customer service, I can speak to that. I am a nobody in the middle of nowhere. I have had a few basses built for me. When they were making my first fretless, it was basicaly finished. Gard called me and said hey, there’s this tiny imperfection. We can leave it, we can try to cover it, or we can move you to the front of the line and start over and put your bass as a top priority to finish. I chose to leave it (I did in another build as well with a mark on the fingerboard but I like those, gives the bass character and something unique) which he figured I would. But to give me the option of starting from scratch and being first in line, that’s awesome. And I’m not an artist or endorsing pro. That speaks volumes to me. And hopefully, that is the kind of service and dedication that will get them through this.
I have a bass on order that should be ready in two years. I play with low action and like my basses PLEKd. I plan on driving 10 extra hours and have Keith PLEK the bass instead of the holier than tho Hipster that PLeked my last bass in Nashville. Always wanted a fretless maybe Keith’s the guy to do it!
Also, the comment about pricing. I liked that I was able to afford a “custom” bass…more than once. Many builders have gone the discount line built overseas route. Many “builders” are also more “assemblers” than builders and they charge as much or even more than a Roscoe. For the options you have and the price you pay, Roscoe’s are still a hell of a deal. Realistically, I think they could ask significantly more for their product. Not bashing this other builders at all, just saying they’re maybe isn’t always a lot of sawdust at those places.
I don’t do drugs, but I found myself wondering if I had done some accidentally when I was flipping channels and saw him in full regalia on Fox News.
GWAR ranks as some of the most memorable concerts I’ve been to. Not the most shocking, but just so much fun.
It’s not at all an uncommon business approach to staying in the game. In the last 2 years we have seen so many good businesses go under as we have been hit by this pandemic. Wiping out supply chains and skyrocketed supplies and shipping costs. I wish them much luck getting through these difficult times. Simply some of the nicest folks in the industry. They have always treated me like a Rock star and I am not lol. Best of luck in 2022 Fellas !
It is totally fair to say it’s a riskier investment.
It has nothing to do with whether people are good or bad - plenty of bad people stay in business and plenty of good people go under. It has to do with numbers.
Depending on how a bankruptcy goes, the business is either fine after, or it’s the first of many.
It seems a lot of people here haven’t been on the losing side of a business going under as a customer or even as an employee. That’s good - but if you aren’t going to put your own money down, and you aren’t going to offer to help reimburse anyone who is putting their own money at risk, you’re doing people a disservice by claiming there is no risk.
Is it probable that people will put money down and get what they want? Sure. Why not. Is it certain? No.
I hope, as another said above that the purchase of the PLEK and CNC machine was just a bad luck confluence with the pandemic. That would seem to be the most likely thing, as I've never heard anything but good about Roscoe as a company. Ideally, people will keep ordering their products, and they will continue to grow and keep making amazing instruments.
This is absolutely correct.
Words don’t change the math. Neither do feelings. Money does.
Prayers and best wishes for this Family Business.
I’ve owned several Roscoes, everyone unique, and enjoyed them all.
Here’s to a better and successful 2022.
Godspeed.
I’ve owned several Roscoes, everyone unique, and enjoyed them all.
Here’s to a better and successful 2022.
Godspeed.
Supporting someone in hard times is what caring is all about.
Actually being a 'good' person is a relevant point here for me. The message being conveyed is that Kieth would not accept an order he could not fulfill as promised. Why? Because he is not out to take a small short term desperate grab to lose his reputation over. The company has a high level of integrity and for those of us who have dealt with him, that's relevant. Therefore the 'risk' of being burned is the same as it was prior to the filing. Chapter 11 is common. Some businesses know well in advance they are closing for good, well before filing, but file anyway to buy time. Many others use chapter 11 for what it is designed for, reorganize debt. Coming out of this leaner and stronger is a definite possibility.
Keith has answered the phone and addressed my questions directly. Gard was amazing too. It takes a Keith to hire a Gard. 
Phenomenal basses. Incredible service. I got a call from Gard when my bass was almost finished and they didn't like the way the twotone fretboard looked when the bass was nearly together. They called and asked me my preference. I chose a one tone and it's so beautiful.
The Roscoe was $1K less than the bass I sold and exceeds it for me in every way.
Phenomenal basses. Incredible service. I got a call from Gard when my bass was almost finished and they didn't like the way the twotone fretboard looked when the bass was nearly together. They called and asked me my preference. I chose a one tone and it's so beautiful.
The Roscoe was $1K less than the bass I sold and exceeds it for me in every way.
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Let us not forget their early tag line. "The P bass that sounds like a Steinway."
The risk is never the same.
By the same token, if you were working with a one or two person business, there’s no guarantee that an errant bus or tornado couldn’t take out the entire business. That’s a real risk, and it happens.
By all means, if you want to support someone, buy from them. In fact, every time you buy a bass from someone else, you’re essentially saying you’d rather they be the ones that stay in business. If you want to keep small businesses afloat, patronize them - just understand that sometimes that isn’t enough.
That’s something that makes a difference. I’m not seeing a ton of, “I saw the news, and I just placed an order” in here, and you’d think that people would realize that if they actually want to see the business stick around, that’s what they should be doing.
??
Respectfully, that is a very limited or incomplete understanding of what were talking about here. I am well aware (and experienced) in how small business works. I am also well aware from first hand family knowledge that even driving, cooking, living life, getting out of bed is a risk. Bus, Tornado? That is not the 'risk' we are talking about here. And by saying anything other than a Roscoe purchase is supporting their demise is a deluded thought. 'The math' for running a successful business is affected in many ways, by many factors (hence the chapter 11) ...'sales' is only one contribution.
In what way is there a limited or incomplete understanding?
Here are the facts:
- If you are in bankruptcy, decisions were made that were not optimal, given the benefit of hindsight. Life happens, but realize that the “bad luck” that occurred in the past could easily strike again, and if you’re operating from a place of sufficient capital, you can weather bad luck. If you are operating from a place where you are lean on capital, you’re having to roll the dice and hope for the best.
- Bankruptcy does have a discouraging impact on the willingness of other parties to engage in business with you, meaning that the terms under which you conduct business could be less favorable than previously. This can either impact your top line (dealers and/or individual customers) or your bottom line (suppliers and sources of financing)
- If the marginal revenue associated with selling a new bass exceeds the marginal cost of producing a new bass, then each new bass ordered will be accretive to the bottom line, and help the business find new footing. If this equation doesn’t hold, then each additional unit will push a business further in the hole.
At the end of the day, if you haven’t placed your order today, all you’re doing is trying to encourage people to put up their own money. Unless you’re willing to contribute to reimburse people in the event of a business failure, you should stop trying to convince other people who may be on the fence. Let them make their own decisions, and if they are concerned about the bankruptcy filing, then stop trying to influence their risk tolerance.
Personally, I’d be fine paying for an “in stock” instrument from a company that filed for bankruptcy. Would I prepay an order for one? No. Especially given that even if I were to pay in phases as the work was completed, I would be considered an unsecured creditor.
I recently ordered a bass, and the person requested that I use PayPal in a manner that affords me no protections (the friend/family style transfer). I considered the cost of the bass, the likelihood it would be fulfilled, and I took an educated risk - fully appreciating there was a chance I just flushed money down the toilet. This is FAR different than just closing my eyes and saying, “person on the internet told me it’d be all right”.
First off, I am not encouraging anybody to do anything. There is not a word of that. What I am doing however, like others are, is simply speaking with confidence about the integrity of another whom we have done business with for years. You feel uncertain, uncomfortable, cool, understood. Walk-away. But again your 'explanation' has been reduced to public perception and potential deception from the company based on sales.
LOL, of course that is the case. that is the scenario...this is why the company filed for chapter 11.
The 'why' however, is not limited by any stretch to 'sales'. Any reduction of it to 'sales' or 'publicly marred image' is the very incomplete understanding I was referring to. Much more to a healthy profit margin and business success than sales. Moving forward, the idea is to restructure so that..."each additional unit will push a business further in the (black")... My wish for Keith is that that is what happens and I find the prospect very probable.
