RUSH Clockwork Angels

[geddeeee]

I don't think Neil has a problem with God or faith, per se. His problem is with organized religion, and the trouble that can sometimes create. Any faith, in anything, is always good.

To quote the man himself: "Blind man in the market, Buying what we're sold..."

 

[Charley Umbria]

+1. For me, as a Christian, it's kind of saddening to hear one of the best lyricists and drummers of all time to have such problems with God.

Not to get too far OT, and with all due respect, I don't think Neil has a problem with God. From everything he's written, it seems like he has a problem with the behavior of people who believe in God. As far as I can tell, God is a non-issue (and, likely, a non-entity), as far as he's concerned.

Keep in mind that Neil has LOTS of tragedy in life along with all his successes. Not sure how anyone could begrudge him on writing about his struggles. IMO.

So, are you saying that Neil's rejection of religion is a result of his personal tragedies? If so, I don't think you give the man enough credit.

Having said all that, I'm really looking forward to hearing the whole album. IMHO, "Caravan" is the best thing they've done in years. Nashville is a city full of excellent players (my bass teacher likes to say that, in this town, the guy serving your lunch may very well be be the best guitarist you'll ever meet...), and I really think that it brought out a little bit of the competitive spirit when Rush recorded at Blackbird.

 

[john turner]

I don't think Neil has a problem with God or faith, per se. His problem is with organized religion, and the trouble that can sometimes create. Any faith, in anything, is always good.

To quote the man himself: "Blind man in the market, Buying what we're sold..."

actually, if you read his personal web page, he's pretty vocally, and proudly, antitheist. i'm not particularly religious, but reading his insulting vitriol about religion and religious individuals really rubbed me the wrong way, sufficiently so that my enthusiasm for this album is pretty completely dampened, and that's coming from someone who has seen them at least 2 times for every concert since moving pictures, and whose gotten every rush album on the day of release, if not earlier, since permanent waves.

i have people who i love who fall under the various sweeping generalisations he's applied in his blogging over the past few years to needlessly, and gleefully, denegrate religious belief in general, and religious individuals in particular, and it has turned me off to him pretty hardcore. this is not because of some offense it might have caused me (he's welcome to his pov and i'm pretty hard to offend) but because of the kind of person it has exposed him to be - little more than a self-proclaimed bigot towards a certain segment of the population (and ironically his fan base), and proud of it.

i find that in my busy life i personally have very little time for that kind of person, even him. and it makes me sad, because i want to be excited (it's a rush album, for christ's sake - the day of release of a new rush album always rated somewhere between christmas and my birthday as far as how excited i'd be for it, since 1980) but i'm just not feeling it anymore.

 

[Bruins29]

John, I agree 100% granted I give Neil a ton more leeway on his attitude as long as the songs are great. Like you Rush album releases have been a big deal in my life (for me since about 1984). Since then it wasnt "will the album be good", it was "how many great songs will be on it". All of the albums through Counterparts have delivered and have blown me away immediately Even TFE was ok and had some decent songs. VT was disappointing and I thoughts Snakes & Arrows was bad.

Now it could be that at our age we just look at music different than we used to and are harder to please and dont get excited about the same things we did 15-20 years ago. Its sort of like food. Your tastes change. Unfortunately I just think that Rush cant recreate the magic anymore (the magic we were spoiled on the last 30 years) and its tough to do it for 40 years. I have heard all of CA and while there are some good songs on it I am not that impressed with it. A lot of people think its their best work since Power Windows or even a top 5 Rush album. Any new album typically gets hyped. I heard the same thing about S&A.

I am not sure why people think heavy riffs and deep lyrics make a good song. I loved Rush because they had great songs with great hooks and melodies. Obviously any Rush album is better than no Rush album. The Anarchist is a good song and I think The Wreckers is pretty awesome. A nice catchy chorus. In fact there was a part of The Wreckers that brought me back to another time of Rush and I was taken back to that part of my life. So for that alone it was worth it. The Garden is nice too. I am looking forward to digging into that and some other songs when I get the album.

 

[I<34080]

I admire Peart's integrity. He will always write what he wants to write. He's not out to please anybody, and why should he have to? What he's done has worked so far.

With that said, lyrics have always been Rush's weak point in my opinion. Some songs turn out great, but others fall kind of flat.

 

[Spectrum]

Well, if the beliefs of the musicians were a guide as to whether I like them or not, I'd have to throw out 90% of my music collection. Besides, for the most part, I am in sync with Peart's ideas.

About Rush "magic", that's all subjective. A lot of us older fans like the pre-Signals sound of Rush, but I know a guy 15 years younger than me who thinks the 90s-00s Rush is the best. And then there's a friend of mine who thinks their besy album was Hold Your Fire, which is my least favorite.

Any new album typically gets hyped.

I think Rush is the opposite for me. Every Rush since Power Windows initially came off as not too good to me, but as time went by they all grew on me. Snakes and Arrows grew on me very fast, and CA hasn't even come out yet and I already like what I'm hearing.

 

[Bruins29]

Spec, I happen to be a HYF guy. I started playing bass because of that tour and I thought what Ged did on that album was really special. I also think the songs are great..all of them even the last 2. I think its one of their best efforts. I can see why others would hate it though. That is what makes Rush so great. One mans 2112 is another mans Presto. Very polarizing band.

As far as Peart goes I never understood his displeasure with the fans that admire him. He gets really put off by an admiration.

I think I should have said that Rush albums tend to get hyped by the fanbois. They go overboard with the band but I guess back in the 80's I was a lot more passionate about them. But I was a lot younger too

 

[nick g.]

Spec, I happen to be a HYF guy. I started playing bass because of that tour and I thought what Ged did on that album was really special. I also think the songs are great..all of them even the last 2. I think its one of their best efforts. I can see why others would hate it though. That is what makes Rush so great. One mans 2112 is another mans Presto. Very polarizing band.

As far as Peart goes I never understood his displeasure with the fans that admire him. He gets really put off by an admiration.

I think I should have said that Rush albums tend to get hyped by the fanbois. They go overboard with the band but I guess back in the 80's I was a lot more passionate about them. But I was a lot younger too

I don't think Neil is displeased with having fans; he simply doesn't understand their desire to have a personal relationship with him, or the impulse in general to put people on pedestals. Some fans tend to get this idea that they know the guy or that they want to be his friend by listening to his band's music. I can see how that might be off-putting.

On a separate note, I don't really think Neal's lyrics are faith-bashing. The mere fact of his unbelief, and his willingness to communicate that fact thorough his art, seems to be somehow inherently offensive to the faithful. It would be equally valid for me to call praise and worship music reason-bashing, which is to say - not at all. I may be biased, however, as a Humanist who happens to have somewhat of an anti-theist philosophy. It's somehow comforting to have thoughts and feelings mirroring my own spoken aloud by someone who has a much better way with words than I.

 

[Charley Umbria]

One mans 2112 is another mans Presto.

LOL. Excellent!

 

[Spectrum]

That is what makes Rush so great. One mans 2112 is another mans Presto. Very polarizing band.

So true.

As far as Peart goes I never understood his displeasure with the fans that admire him. He gets really put off by an admiration.

There's a theory going around the internet that Peart has mild asberger's or something like that. It's just a rumor, but when you see the guy talk in interviews it's very clear that he is kind of an introverted nerd with a lot of internal stuff going on. Nothing wrong with that; that describes over half of us Rush fans out here, and might be why he connects with us. So if his beliefs set people off I cut him some slack, it's what he thinks and he needs to express himself in music, and his quirky personality is probably part of what drives him to seek drumming perfection.

Subdivisions is like the suburban nerd anthem for cryin' out loud. Really speaks to a lot of people who grew up in that environment.

 

[fleabee]

Im happy to say that I enjoy Rush A-Z for a million different reasons, different time periods in my life, different emotions from albums etc. I never jumped off the band wagon because some stuff was more "personal/human" or "less hard rock-ish". To me there was something off EVERY album that was great, hence being an old f@3k and still loving them.

 

[john_g]

Spec, I happen to be a HYF guy. I started playing bass because of that tour and I thought what Ged did on that album was really special. I also think the songs are great..all of them even the last 2. I think its one of their best efforts. I can see why others would hate it though. That is what makes Rush so great. One mans 2112 is another mans Presto. Very polarizing band.

As far as Peart goes I never understood his displeasure with the fans that admire him. He gets really put off by an admiration.

I think I should have said that Rush albums tend to get hyped by the fanbois. They go overboard with the band but I guess back in the 80's I was a lot more passionate about them. But I was a lot younger too

Im sorry but, I dont think he doesnt like the fans, he doesnt like some of the adoration that goes with being famous. Im the exact same way. I grew up very shy but played alot of sports and was in bands and it made me extremely uncomfortable when people would come up to me and want to talk to me because of it. Lots of people were put off and thought I was being aloof or stuck up and that was not the case. It made me uncomfortable and embarrassed, and Im just some nobody. I think if it isnt in your nature to be like this and you are more outgoing, its hard to understand.

 

[Bruins29]

I grew up very shy but played alot of sports and was in bands and it made me extremely uncomfortable when people would come up to me and want to talk to me because of it. .

I am the opposite. I loved talking to people about bands or the sports I play. I think that might have been the biggest thrill about being in a band for me because I touched someone with my music and they took the time to approach me. With Neil I had just never heard anyone say it the way he said it. I understand where he is coming from or the way he is but he took it to the extreme I thought and sort of made it personal. I can also understand that being famous inst easy and that you probably cant have privacy.

Also, Fleabee makes a point I think many can relate to. Rush has been in some of our lives for a long time. I can also distinctively remember listening to MP, Signals, P/G, PW, HYF, Presto, RTB, CP, TFE, for the fist time. The exact place I was down to the last detail, the emotions I felt and how I was blown away the first time I heard each of those albums..and yes there are Gems on every Rush album including the last 3. But I was younger then as well.

So perhaps the question is, are some of us getting older and just not that emotionally attached to music like we used to be, or older, more conditioned and like with food just have more sophisticated taste? Or are we just so conditioned to a certain period of Rush? Or is Rush just not writing the same quality songs that they used to?

 

[fleabee]

If an album, regardless of who the artist is inspires me to pick up the bass and attempt to get better at it...that's what does it for me. Naturally, getting the chills is a big plus.

 

[JetBlackJazz]

I don't think Neil has a problem with God or faith, per se. His problem is with organized religion, and the trouble that can sometimes create. Any faith, in anything, is always good.

To quote the man himself: "Blind man in the market, Buying what we're sold..."

I like to tell myself that mainly Neil has no position, and that he sets up his own philosophy. I am a very strong christian, and I pray for Neil, honestly. Some people go through so much pain and hardship, it seems they just push aside the idea of faith. IO still pray. Maybe he'll come to the lord one day.

 

[BrentSimons]

Hey guys,
Did any of you get the super duper cool fan package? I just got it yesterday!!! The album is fantastic so far, (no big surprise, right?) Simply awesome. Geddy is definitely using the Orange amps according to the interview, set to the "destroy" setting, his own words.
Brent

 

[Hawkbone]

I like to tell myself that mainly Neil has no position, and that he sets up his own philosophy. I am a very strong christian, and I pray for Neil, honestly. Some people go through so much pain and hardship, it seems they just push aside the idea of faith. IO still pray. Maybe he'll come to the lord one day.

I doubt that will happen, and sincerely hope he doesn't. It's a measure of the man he is that he developed his own view of the world and his own sense of spirituality when times were good, but didn't go whining to some god when the chips were down. He faced good and bad on his own terms, as a man. They say there are no atheists in foxholes, but I think Neil would defy that generalization. As would I - after rising above the mythology I was raised on, I would loathe myself if I let hardship knock me back on my knees.

 

[Phantasm]

Wow, this has derailed a bit into a religious discussion.

I understand why he questions God when he lost a wife and daughter.

I pray that God doesn't send that test my way.

 

[lucas vigor]

Unless it is country western music, or Frank Sinatra, I never listen to lyrics. What Neil believes is irrelevent to me....

his drums, that guitar, that bass....all I need.

 

[OPBASSMAN1994]

I doubt that will happen, and sincerely hope he doesn't. It's a measure of the man he is that he developed his own view of the world and his own sense of spirituality when times were good, but didn't go whining to some god when the chips were down. He faced good and bad on his own terms, as a man. They say there are no atheists in foxholes, but I think Neil would defy that generalization. As would I - after rising above the mythology I was raised on, I would loathe myself if I let hardship knock me back on my knees.

Who said that those who pray for help from something higher than themselves are just "whining to some god when the chips are down"? If faith is a source of hope and strength for people, as it is for myself, it is just as viable as your own. We aren't all just believers in hardship, and we aren't all ignorant, weak, whining or whatever we may be unjustly categorized as by some of the people who dislike the concept of religion. I don't have a problem with opposing views, but what happens if I lumped all atheists together under some general assumption like that? You'd be offended, would you not?

I don't know if you intended to be offensive or not, but it comes off that way.

However, that being said. It's time to drop the discussion of faith-versus-non-faith views. There is a thin line that I feel we are coming close to crossing that will get this thread shut down. There is a TB Lounge for that, and I don't think any of us care to be flagged by the mods. So let's Leave That Thing Alone.




This thread is a celebration of a new Rush album. So let's talk about the best band ever - Rush.
Ged's bass on "Seven Cities of Gold" is awesome.