There is content there, just not huge. You hear the upper harmonics, which your brain fills in. Actually the response curve of the 408 looks similar to a sealed 810. Lots of people think it has a lot of low end too.
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S/D Bassists #87 - A New Gear Argument
- Thread starter The_Janitor
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There is content there, just not huge. You hear the upper harmonics, which your brain fills in. Actually the response curve of the 408 looks similar to a sealed 810. Lots of people think it has a lot of low end too.
Been sick a few days and out of commission. Feel like ****.
My dually gets to ear bleeding volume levels with my Traynor Monoblock II.
Hah, I commented on this in /r/stonerrock.
My dually gets to ear bleeding volume levels with my Traynor Monoblock II.
Hah, I commented on this in /r/stonerrock.
It's hyperbole. I'm just saying before 100hz you have a very steep drop off.
An interesting note the bump is centered right around the 1st harmonic of the B1.
do me a favor, plug the same speakers from the 66 into the 408 and run that chart again. interested to see how much difference those drivers make.
EDIT: btw, if im reading correctly, a standard E is about 41hz, a B is 30hz and obviously A/G/F are all lower than that. so no cab is really picking those up, youre just hearing the harmonic anyways right?
Here it is.
Link Removed
Its not the drivers. It is the cab design. You would have more low end output with two 3015LF's in the fEARful box, than you would with four of them in the 408.
There isnt enough air space in the 408 to take advantage of the mechanical capabilities of many of the modern drivers.
Really all this tells us is that its not the speakers, or the design, but the combination of both that matter.
so that chart for the 1515, the starting point is showing me what? the hz reading at a certain Db level?
Yep that is both the fEARful 1515/66 cab and the 408 loaded with 3015LF's. It shows the max output in dB in the frequency range.
I just did the CB15's in both boxes, and they are pathetic farts in the fEARful box. That actually swings the other direction. Too much air space for those speakers.
i guess im just wondering "how much" more low end output would i be getting. what does that chart tell me in terms of usable information?
It really depends on if you are looking for that content below 80hz or so. Or if you are looking to move a lighter box. It also doesnt show you how loud the 408 gets with an amp of lesser wattage. Those charts are "Max volume" at 900 watts which is about what the 408 can do with those speakers in it.
There are a lot of "It depends" here.
Do you have any measurements and porting information?
+1
This can be a positive discussion.
if im reading that graph correctly it looks like the 1515 is about give or take 30 hz at 110 db, and the 408 is about 40 hz at 110db. considering 30hz is a low B, and the chart doesnt even go past that, that means in my tuning at A, all im hearing is a harmonic reproduction of my note. how can the 1515 show that it produces a 20hz harmonic better than the 408 does if the chart doesnt even go down that far?
You're almost never hearing the fundamental on E, from pretty much any bass cab. If it's there at all, it's very quiet and being completely drown out by all the other frequencies getting reproduced much louder. When I set up my mixing room, I used a signal generator at 80 Hz to test my bass trapping (before and after) and you can barely hear that with the volume cranked on my monitors. It's more like a hum than a note. So being able to reproduce a lot of content below 100 Hz isn't the most important aspect of any bass cab. Like Julian said, the Ampeg 810 is that way and I don't think anyone would say it doesn't sound powerful in the "low end". Perceived frequency content is more crucial to listening than objective content.
That kind of stuff comes into play a lot with mixing. If you dial in a mix with lots of sub 100 Hz frequencies, it just eats up a lot of headroom and makes things sound muddy. That's why so many vintage consoles have high pass filters built right into their channel strips. Having a big hump in that graph around 100-120 Hz for the 408 makes a lot of sense, because it has a lot of "thump" to it, which with most bass cabs is more low mid content than sub bass. Sub bass is more "rumble", if that makes sense. I think the argument for precisely matching cab dimensions and venting to specific drivers is primarily efficiency and flat response. Efficiency is very nice, but flat response isn't what everyone wants or likes with cabs. That back and forth exists in a lot of music/audio circles. Amps, cabs, pedals, stereos, speakers, mic preamps, monitors.
Me too, I want to build a copy of the Matamp/Electric 415 that Al uses/used.
The first harmonic of B is about 62 hz. The 1515/66 can produce that around 132dB. The 408 with those drivers can produce that at about 125dB. The A below that is about 58hz. Not a huge difference there.
I have a confession to make: this weekend we shared a backline and I had to play through a Behringer Ultrabass BB410. I almost said something when I went to help the guy pull it out of his car, but I bit my tongue because I didn't want to be "that guy".
It actually sounded pretty decent. Of course I was running my EGC, Wizard Fuzz and Terror Bass so it would have had to be pretty bad to not sound good, but I was moderately impressed. No where near the low end response or girth of my Dually, but certainly usable.
It actually sounded pretty decent. Of course I was running my EGC, Wizard Fuzz and Terror Bass so it would have had to be pretty bad to not sound good, but I was moderately impressed. No where near the low end response or girth of my Dually, but certainly usable.
keep going with this, so is that hump at 100-120 not normal in a lot of bass cabs? because i would say my cabs definitely have lots of "sub" quality to them, and that may just be more because of how i have the tone dialed in. i dont have them set for lots of punch or tightness, very loose and smooth low end is what i like to use with my band.
