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S/D Bassists #87 - A New Gear Argument

#25
Ron Now said:
I can atest to this, I had these hughes and kettner 4x10's when I started playing bass, they were my cabs through all the early years of playing music, used them in weekend nachos and even once bongripper started.

I wanted to upgrade the speakers, so I bought a some really nice emience speakers figuring that they could handle more wattage and make my cabs sound better.

I didn't know anything about speaker science, so I just popped the speakers in the cabs, and figured all was good 10's were 10's, speakers were speakers.

the new speakers were meant for a sealed cab, and not my ported 4x10's (or maybe it was vice versa...either way, it was wrong) so I got no added volume, frankly they seemed even quieter than they were with the stock speakers. And they broke up/farted out much quicker especially since they were technically rated at 1600 watts or something like that.

the only thing that happened is my cabs weighed about twice what they originally did.

I had already sold the stock speakers at that point, so I ended up selling the cabs to some local shop or MGR who knows and bought my first emperor cabs....obviously I've gone into what a **** show that was.

But yeah, wrong speakers in the wrong box will totally sound bad.
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i guess its case by case. my guitarist has done it a couple times and its always sounded good, i swapped the stocks on my 408s and they still sound really good, maybe im just lucky. still tho, i bet if i put 3015s in my 408s theyd sound huge haha.
 
#26
beebassdude said:
1. this is a bass gear site, there will always be arguments about stuff (and frankly this time im not even arguing, i just wanted to see some specs!)

2. francis stole your bike
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I went all the way to the Alamo, for nothing?!


I'm also using OD a lot more than fuzz these days. I do still use fuzz, for certain things. If I'm just after general dirt I'm sticking with overdrives, because I'm liking the low end retention and the way it sits in the mix a little better fingerstyle (some exception, always some). There is a certain tone I can only get with a pick and a fuzz with just the right setting though.

This is a perfect example: http://warprig.bandcamp.com/track/blues-for-a-red-planet

On that one I used the Wizard Fuzz on one rig, the PPB on the other and favored the PPB just a bit more when mixing. The Dunwich Wizard Fuzz is a nice compromise, since I can get it into either territory, but it never really gets quite as nasty sounding as my Pickle Pie B for certain things. Which is usually what I like about it, but I change my tones so much between bass and guitar, I tend to always have a few things on the board and just specialize for what I like best from each.
 
#27
beebassdude said:
i guess its case by case. my guitarist has done it a couple times and its always sounded good, i swapped the stocks on my 408s and they still sound really good, maybe im just lucky. still tho, i bet if i put 3015s in my 408s theyd sound huge haha.
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Most guitar cabs are relatively the same size/design, the speakers tend to work better for swapping them in and out.

I know I've blown some 15's in an old acoustic cab because they weren't right for the box, they weren't the best speakers in the world, but they should have lasted longer than they did.
 
#29
beebassdude said:
why would a speaker fart out in a different box? the speaker is the speaker.
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Speaker is the same but the your changing figuratively 50% of the equation when you change the box, so it's not surprising they don't react equally in different boxes.

An ill fitting outfit too big or small doesn't do you justice. Just like a good suit has you looking like a million bucks, the right combination of box and speaker is just better than going to goodwill and buying the first thing you can fit yourself into.

Large Size isn't important to me, never has been. If a 1x12 design came out tomorrow and blew away everything out there, I'd go for it.
 
#30
On an almost completely different subject, my guitarplayer bought a new Orange 2x12 cab. Plugged his Marshall Vintage 50 watt into it.......HOLY TOLEDO! That is the magical mojo box! I personally think that half of his dirt pedals are now redundant.

Can't wait til I get my VB-2, I can start adding some proper grind of my own!
 
#37
Man sleeping every 30-60 min for 30-60 min writing up a strategic marketing plan that's due at 2pm tomorrow... Ideas were there but lazy when it comes to writing it out and number crunching hypothetical ideas.

Once it's in I can crash a few consecutive hours before I dive into resume fixes and buy a dress shirt and tie for a career fair Wednesday.

On subject of fuzzy bass, there are some fantastic bass fuzz tones (max that Vulcan!!) but as much as I appreciate and envy them, I generally have yet to find a true fuzz tone for myself and it's an expensive endeavor for a tone that isn't my always on.

OD and distortion cover me fine, and like Ron said still tend to leave an edge to your tone, which is vital or misleading since my base tone can be pretty warm so that edge gives me definition when things get hairy while still keeping relatively true to the underlying tone of the bass/playing style/amp.

That said, I'm curious how a fuzz would sound through my complete rig once the basses get new strings and parts, dually arrives and I can blast the mb500 through it.

Oh and I have one 9v tap out left on my board, aside from dirt, delay and chorus, what's something to plop in there? Not going over $100 rather stay under $75. I'm thinking mole or a filter, but anything simple and useful.
 
#38
Ok. So some more charts and graphs for you. I know its early. Have another cup of coffee and a bowl....

I have used the same set up for the EVM's that I did before, but this time instead of a 15Pr400 (Bassic) I took a look at the 3015LF (fEARful 15/6).

One of the biggest questions that I see is "Will this amp work with this cab?" which is based on the myth that you need a ton of power to make the fEARful cabs work.

Here is the sensitivity of both cabs.

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With one watt of input, the EVM will be louder above 80hz or so where it starts to roll off. The roll off point of the fEARful is about 40hz lower. You bet your a$$ that content is noticeable.

Most of us are using more than one watt though, so lets take a look at 300 watts, right about where the EVM is reaching its limits.

Here is the excursion at 300 watts of both cabs.
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The 15/6 still has a ton of room to breath, right as the evm hits its limits. But we need to remember that sensitivity graph. The EVM will be louder right?

Lets take a look at the output.
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Nope, because of the huge mechanical limitations of the 15/6, it is actually louder than the EVM with 300 watts of input. So lets really push it now.

Here is the 15/6 with 1000 watts, next to the EVM at 300.
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Still not farting out on the 15/6.

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And the output.

Keep in mind that it takes double the wattage to increase a single cabs output by 3dB. Or a second cab to increase by 3dB. So at 100hz, where the "punch" is, there is about a 10dB difference in potential volume.

The disclaimer on all of this is that you need to like how the cab sounds. People will have their personal tastes which are subjective, and this is just what can be put into the objective.
 
#40
mbelue said:
Nice work cl.
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The reason why I used the EVM, on top of having the data handy, is that it is an amazing driver. Even more so when you realize how fuucking old the design is. I wish I could get similar data on other production cabs, but in most cases, they use some proprietary driver. Who knows what the real specs on those are, but if there was some tech there that surpassed the offerings from Emi and Faital, I know those manufacturers would be taking advantage of it as well.
 

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