SA C4 with DMC Micro - "Latency"?

[kesslari]

Used my C4 for the first time in a rehearsal, in which I switch it on during a song for particular passages (different songs, different patches).
I've been using the DMC Micro to engage/disengage the C4 (as well as to set patches). At home this hasn't been a problem (but I haven't been practicing these tunes at home, as I know them).
The problem: to engage the C4 I have to hold down the DMC left button for about 3 seconds, which doesn't work super well for "engage for this line, then disengage" (especially when the songs/lines are complex).

How are others dealing with this (and getting "press-on, press-off" functionality) with their C4 and DMC gear? @BurningSkies I'm thinking you've probably had to deal with this and figured it out...

 

[JRA]

sorry, i can't help: but i'm also interested in the responses. i followed the C4 thread until my eyes blurred --- it was over my head, just to read it.

i'm really interested in getting one (for nice synth tones) but it seems that it's way more complicated than just another plug-and-play device. i would also need to use it for a line/part here and there --- so i hope the feedback you get holds a solution!

 

[rsmith601]

sorry, i can't help: but i'm also interested in the responses. i followed the C4 thread until my eyes blurred --- it was over my head, just to read it.

i'm really interested in getting one (for nice synth tones) but it seems that it's way more complicated than just another plug-and-play device. i would also need to use it for a line/part here and there --- so i hope the feedback you get holds a solution!

That is the problem with these forums at times. So much discussion is about deep things.

We make out pedals for 3 types of folks:
1) Plug and Play
2) Those in the middle
3) Deep tweakers who want a really powerful tool.

Note that jumping from 1 to 2 happens all the time.

With the C4 you can use the stock 6 sounds that are on top, or you can easily browse the work of others (like 600 sounds) and see what you like. If you find something you like more than the stock sounds, you can burn over them. All of what I have described is easy. It is also powerful. Making the pedal complicated is good too, because those people make the 600 cool sounds. Note I did not say "guys" because some of the best sounds in the library were not made by a guy.

 

[JRA]

That is the problem with these forums at times. So much discussion is about deep things.

We make out pedals for 3 types of folks:
1) Plug and Play
2) Those in the middle
3) Deep tweakers who want a really powerful tool.

Note that jumping from 1 to 2 happens all the time.

With the C4 you can use the stock 6 sounds that are on top, or you can easily browse the work of others (like 600 sounds) and see what you like. If you find something you like more than the stock sounds, you can burn over them. All of what I have described is easy. It is also powerful. Making the pedal complicated is good too, because those people make the 600 cool sounds. Note I did not say "guys" because some of the best sounds in the library were not made by a guy.

cool beans! i'm glad the c4 is manageable. i'm probably "in the middle" --- straight from "plug and play" as of this post!

i'm interested in your solution (or comments) re: kesslari 's problem/issue, above. thanks.

 

[sunbeast]

Used my C4 for the first time in a rehearsal, in which I switch it on during a song for particular passages (different songs, different patches).
I've been using the DMC Micro to engage/disengage the C4 (as well as to set patches). At home this hasn't been a problem (but I haven't been practicing these tunes at home, as I know them).
The problem: to engage the C4 I have to hold down the DMC left button for about 3 seconds, which doesn't work super well for "engage for this line, then disengage" (especially when the songs/lines are complex).

How are others dealing with this (and getting "press-on, press-off" functionality) with their C4 and DMC gear? @BurningSkies I'm thinking you've probably had to deal with this and figured it out...

It sounds like you are trying to use the pedal while in the "Device" config mode/page of the DMC (the page used to scroll through internal device presets on a single device). You should instead pick the preset you are using and set up the DMC to trigger it in the DMC "Preset" mode/page. Set up correctly in "preset" mode, one click will engage the pedal in the chosen preset. A limitation of the small size of the Micro is that it can't really be conveniently utilized live directly from the Device mode like the bigger DMCs (except for just scrolling up and down through the C4s internal presets while pedal is engaged or off). Check out page 8 of the manual here for the details on setting up the Preset Mode (assuming you already have the DMC set up to work with the C4): [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[kesslari]

@sunbeast that looks like the ticket. Will try it tonight!

 

[kesslari]

@sunbeast - I tried it. I learned that can save Presets on the preset channel in a different order than I have them in the "A" channel.
What I don't get is how to turn the C4 on (or off) "instantly" from either mode.

 

[Goatrope]

I’ll be using it live Friday night for the first time.

I have the same concern regarding having to hold the button down. If you just tap it, you’re moving down to the next lower number preset.

If I’m turning it on at the start of a song, and using it all through, no issue. If I just want to turn it on or off mid song, I don’t see how I’ll be able to linger on the button in the heat of battle.

My first thought is to just kick the button that’s on the C4 instead. At least I can just stomp it and it’s on or off.

Until I figure something else out, or anyone else has a better idea, that’s what I’ll be doing.

 

[sunbeast]

@sunbeast - I tried it. I learned that can save Presets on the preset channel in a different order than I have them in the "A" channel.
What I don't get is how to turn the C4 on (or off) "instantly" from either mode.

When you set the “preset” you are using, was the C4 engaged utilizing the Device mode? I believe the Micro saves the status of the C4 when creating a preset (engaged or bypassed) as part of the preset. Think of the Micro as essentially saving “scenes” in a preset, so if you have the C4 engaged and on a certain preset when you create/save the DMC preset, then that is the status that preset should recall. I should add that I don’t have a Micro personally, but a DMC-8

 

[kesslari]

Yes, C4 was engaged.

 

[sunbeast]

Yes, C4 was engaged.

Was it engaged using the held left footswitch on the DMC (on the Device page)? I know on the larger DMC units, there are individual LEDs to show the on/off status of each MIDI device when you create a preset but not sure on the Micro

 

[sunbeast]

Also- just to verify, you have updated firmware for both the C4 and DMC?

 

[rsmith601]

cool beans! i'm glad the c4 is manageable. i'm probably "in the middle" --- straight from "plug and play" as of this post!

i'm interested in your solution (or comments) re: kesslari 's problem/issue, above. thanks.

Does not involve the C4. There is no latency on preset changes.

 

[kesslari]

@rsmith601 Not latency regarding the C4 presets. Latency in the way that (I know to) turn the C4 on or off with the DMC Micro.

 

[DJCalamari]

I found that out pretty quickly so my workaround is to mount the DMC Micro right below the C4 on my pedalboard and use the top footswitch to engage on and off, and the bottom two to scroll through sounds. Right now I have about 75 different presets to play around with.

 

[kesslari]

I found that out pretty quickly so my workaround is to mount the DMC Micro right below the C4 on my pedalboard and use the top footswitch to engage on and off, and the bottom two to scroll through sounds. Right now I have about 75 different presets to play around with.

THAT works!

 

[Goatrope]

Another thing that occurred to me is that I can create a preset that actually is just an unaffected bass sound.

Then I’d save that to a location that is in sequence with the other presets I want to use, such as:

10 - unaffected bass
11 - cool preset for verse
12 - cool preset for pre chorus
13 - unaffected bass

So I can leave the C4 on, move to position 10, then just use the right button on the DMC micro to scroll when the time comes.

Switching to a new preset should be instantaneous, and I’d essentially be starting with straight bass, move up to 11 for my first preset, up to 12 for the next preset, then 13 for straight bass again, as if I turned off the C4.

Thoughts?

 

[LowActionHero]

I’ll be using it live Friday night for the first time.

I have the same concern regarding having to hold the button down. If you just tap it, you’re moving down to the next lower number preset.

If I’m turning it on at the start of a song, and using it all through, no issue. If I just want to turn it on or off mid song, I don’t see how I’ll be able to linger on the button in the heat of battle.

My first thought is to just kick the button that’s on the C4 instead. At least I can just stomp it and it’s on or off.

Until I figure something else out, or anyone else has a better idea, that’s what I’ll be doing.

I know nothing about either of those pedals, but another solution might be to put an empty 'patch' above or below your C4 patch and jump between them, until a real solution is found.

If I'm way off base please disregard...

Edit, I see Goatrope suggested the same thing, so please disregard.

 

[sunbeast]

It looks like via the manual that when creating a DMC preset that it saves the device status as shown on the display by three dots (for the three MIDI devices that can be controlled at once). So when on the Device page when selecting the internal C4 preset that you want to be part of the DMC preset, you engage the C4 using the DMC and it should show a “dot” on the screen to verify that the pedal is “engaged” as part of the preset being saved. This according to the manual, page 8 as linked above. Again I can’t verify because my DMC-8 functions a bit differently.

DMC controllers do a lot of simple setup things like this behind the scenes to avoid making you have to manually enter MIDI messages for pedals, but the downside of that simplicity is that you have to follow their procedures completely to trigger things. This can be really annoying frankly, but they seem to be designed to give MIDI-illiterate people easy access to MIDI control. Unless you just use “Utility” mode and directly program specific MIDI messaging using the C4’s MIDI command matrix in the manual. The Utility mode on the Micro is super limited by the 2-button interface though.

Also I will repeat to ensure that both pedals are updated to most recent firmware, as both are new and getting lots of updates quickly (mostly the DMC.Micro at this point). The last listed firmware update for the Micro actually mentions an update for the C4 bypass functionality, so that may be the ticket...

 

[sunbeast]

So I just verified with my DMC-8 that if I save onto say preset “P01A” from Device page with the C4 engaged using the DMC (you should see a dot on your screen apparently to show device engaged, on mine there is an LED) then turning to that preset from Preset mode automatically engages the C4. This functionality should be the same with the Micro. Again- you need to make sure the dot on the DMC screen that shows the Device A engaged is there while saving presets or it will save the preset in bypass instead. In case anyone is unaware, the DMC only transmits data to the C4 and doesn't receive, so if you engage the C4 using the C4 bypass switch the DMC has no way of knowing- you need to program the DMC to send a message to the C4 to engage when you trigger the preset (which is what this preset method accomplishes).

Make sure you have newest DMC firmware update and followed the setup procedures of the DMC for the C4 (USB as “Host” and DevA as “C4”, and I believe you have to turn on the “USB Skip MIDI Power Check” feature on your Neuro app or Neuro Desktop for the Micro- this may not be necessary though).