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SansAmp news from NAMM

I have more time to respond now, so here it goes....

Ok, don't take this as attitude but, for the 1000th time
yes, this doesn't sound like attitude at all. :D Just pickin' with you, bro. All good!

a real 70's svt isn't scooped out like the VT's flat setting or especially not the bass driver.
Agreed on the BDDI, but I haven't really considered that in this conversation. You also don't have to run the VT flat. It's been shown around here that you can make the VT mid-centered by twisting the knobs. If you don't like having to do that then I can understand. It definitely has what I consider a typical Ampeg voice when set flat though, albeit very bright.

I've had my svt on a scope and it is relatively flat except for a roughly 2db, very wide boost centered around 250hz.
Using a speaker DI straight off the head, I'd agree slightly, but the VT has always been about emulating an Ampeg through a mic'ed cab which is far from flat.

Thats why it sounds so much more full and punchy than the ampeg cl. The cl is scooped.
Agree slightly again, but IMHO the difference between an vintage and CL SVT isn't nearly as drastic as it seems some have perceived. But there again it's scientifically proven that people hear things differently.

Yes fender and orange products are very scooped, not a real svt. A cl is not a real svt. Accept it....

Im sorry, I guess that Im getting tired of new threads popping up covering the same things, same arguements, guys giving opinions on gear they've never actually used, or gear they have never actually used at a gig. And especially guys talking about svt tone when they have never used a 70's svt through an 8x10 live. This isn't a jab at anyone specifically, just a rant about gear I own and know.
This still sounds like attitude to me, not that it matters. But seriously, again we all hear thing differently, so I don't think people like me are being any more dogmatic on this issue than you are. Lots of players here on TB and everywhere in the world have used a real 70's SVT through an 810 live. It's pretty ubiquitous actually, and many of us still think the VT sounds incredibly like this rig if setup correctly. There are lots of professionals and big name players also that are using the VT as they were made by Tech 21 with little or no complaints. It's no substitute for the real thing though. If you have found a custom mod that helps you get it closer to the way you like your SVT rig to sound, then really that is great news! But I've had almost zero issue getting my VT's to sound like a mic'ed SVT/810 without needing to mod it. I've complained about the harshness that can creep in with these pedals also, and I've wanted a blend control to add the ability to vary things up a bit. So I agree with you that there is always room for improvement. The speaker sim defeat on the v2 helped, and now the new Bite control on the VTBDI will take that even further.

It seems to me that Tech 21 is trying to make this pedal better without over complicating it. I think if you look at their history, the BDDI has outsold the PDDI by far even though the later has that sweepable mid. Experience is probably telling them to keep it simple. Just speculating there though.

Personally, I would love the sweepable mid control on the VT. But I suspect you and I are in the minority of most bass players in that we know how to use such a control. I think the added complexity would make things more difficult for the average Tech 21 customer. That is more what I was suggesting before. As it is, people plug in to the VT, and it sounds like an Ampeg to most of them. They might have to boost some bass and cut some treble, but they can get in the neighborhood very quickly with little fuss, and the pedal has been a smash hit as a result.

While I'm on my own personal wish list, I'd prefer it if the Character knob didn't affect mids at ALL myself. Just have it change compression, harmonics and attack characteristics of the signal, then use sweepable mid control to shape the tone. That would make the character knob very subtle though, and I suspect most people would say that it didn't do anything to their sound. :D I'd love it though.

If the VTDI eq effects the clean side I won't buy it.
I'm not sure if I'd like that better or not. Having the VT be able to control EQ on the clean side would make it very powerful. I often used the BDDI like this as it could fatten up a jazz bass without using any of the Sansamp emulation. It made it a very flexible DI. It also helped control the scoop since you could reduce lows and mids on the pedal, which had the effect of boosting mids in the clean signal before they were scooped on the Sansamp side. Blending the two of those tones together could make for a great tone. I'm kind of hoping the VTDI is the same.
 
Wow thats a mouth full LOL
Agreed. Kinda relates to what I'm saying about keeping it simple. Most highly successful consumer products have been simple to use an operate, even though they don't offer a lot of tweaking potential. Most people never read the manual on things they buy. Imagine the average person having to read through a manual to understand a stompbox. It's a recipe for failure. Tech 21 did the smart thing IMHO, which is make the flat sound of the VT aggressive and instantly recognizable as a rocker's SVT. It can be tough to smooth it out a bit like many folks prefer, but it can get there pretty closely. Hopefully the new Blend and Bite control will finish it up.

Id rather be 95% there and not have to haul a 150lb cab and an 80lb head, LOL
+1, though there is just something special about the way that classic setup feels when you are in front of it. I love it when all I have to do is show up and plug in to one.
 
Eublet, I really agree with much you are saying and I really do like the VT in each form. It just feels like tech21 always gets so close but leaves out the few details to make a product perfect. The vt is an ampeg emulator. If you are going to do a svt, you need the mid control. If you are going to do a clean blend like guys are doing with looper pedals, then do a clean blend, not a shared eq. I find that it's nice to have a clean eq but, it usually fights with the amp simulated sound and vice versa. I really like the RPM preamp but could never get it to work right because of that exact reason. Same for the RPM. A totally clean blend on the vt would actually get it very close to a clean svt because you would have a thicker sound blended with the vt circuit. I've done it would a few different blenders and didn't feel the need for an extra mid.
 
How many people that would buy a VT bass do it because they have experience with tube ampegs and want to replace one, versus because it sounds good and is convenient? How many people know they'd be replacing an $XXX amp?

I'd get it purely for covenience.

Another +1 here. I suspect that the VT Bass name and Ampeg emulation draws people in, but how many products out there have claimed to do that in the past and not been successful? quite a few I think. Yet the BDDI and the VT variants have been hugely successful because the put the player in a sonic territory that is pleasing right off the bat, reminding them of a vintage rig that is easily recognizeable, and they do it for a great price.

Tech 21's goal is of course to sell the products they make, and they're hugely successful in that regards. I think the VTBDI will become the new Tech 21 staple product down the road, replacing even the BDDI as the new heavyweight. As great as the VT Bass has been, I still see BDDI's almost every where I go, and seldom any of the VT variants.
 
I see I'm not alone in being obsessive about midrange controls in bass gear. I currently use a Para Driver, its the second time I've owned this pedal. I've tried every product Tech 21 has put out for bass or is useable for bass, & I like this pedal only slightly more than the VT V2 Bass, because of the added parametric midrange control & blend. I like that this new version has the speaker sim defeat & blend as well as di, but I was never able to get the low midrange grunt out of that pedal that I can dial in on the Paradriver. The Paradriver is difficult to dial in, the knobs all have a very wide effect on eq & it can be very difficult to strike a balance between Drive, Blend & the eq. I found the b15 setting on the VT bass Version 2 with the speaker sim defeated was the best setting overall for my tastes, if it had a couple of midrange settings like an SVT with a blend I think I would call it good. Everybody hears things different, many like the speaker sim on the VT version, or the midrange control on the RPM, whereas I was never happy with either.
 
The low mids is right. Thats what you can't get with the VT. And those low mids are prominant in a svt. No flamming here, these are just suggestions to make a good product better. Someone already pointed out how they may just be hamstringing the product along, adding these things every year to sell the most product. Thats not out of the question. Yeah, I agree, the eq voicings are way to wide on all of the models. To make a VT puchy, I can run an fdeck hpf3 in front of it to remove alot of low end and then boost the basst control on the vt. That gets things closer but, then you are still adding other devices. Anyway, my moded one is done right and I love it. I also don't mind sharing what I've come up with. Im so tired of seeing bands play live and the bass tone just sucks or gets burried and the guy is just oblivious. It doesn't matter how well you play if nobody can hear it.
 
The low mids is right. Thats what you can't get with the VT. And those low mids are prominant in a svt. No flamming here, these are just suggestions to make a good product better. Someone already pointed out how they may just be hamstringing the product along, adding these things every year to sell the most product. Thats not out of the question. Yeah, I agree, the eq voicings are way to wide on all of the models. To make a VT puchy, I can run an fdeck hpf3 in front of it to remove alot of low end and then boost the basst control on the vt. That gets things closer but, then you are still adding other devices. Anyway, my moded one is done right and I love it. I also don't mind sharing what I've come up with. Im so tired of seeing bands play live and the bass tone just sucks or gets burried and the guy is just oblivious. It doesn't matter how well you play if nobody can hear it.
If anything the low mids in the VT is what I hear in abundance. The mid-mid is what I think lacks some control, but this only shows again how people hear things differently. I've recorded in the studio and in live settings many times with nothing but a VT going straight to the console and have never once thought it needed more low mids. Never had an engineer have to add more low mids either. Usually in most every recording or live situation I'm in, the engineer winds up pulling low mids out around 220 hz or so to prevent it mudding up the rest of the mix.

Not singling you out here specifically, but I've noticed over the last few years that a lot of people around TB seem to think that low mids is where the bass guitar is at. I agree it adds lots of power and punch, but it also tramples all over most mixes IMHO. I've never once been around a professional sound engineer who wants that area of the bass guitar boosted at a live event. Quite often engineers cut that part of the signal around 2 to 5 dB in order for the bass to sit properly. After that it's just a matter of adjusting the treble to prevent clankiness yet provide presence. Just posting my experience. YMMV.
 
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Alot of guys would agree with you but, I've never had that experience. I mix the sound for my band and find the best sound for us is to carve that range out of the kick and my bass fills that spot nicely. Everybody has their place in the mix and can be heard. I like to sit above the kick drum thud and below the kick attack. Some bands do the opposite, depends on what you are going for. I like modern drums and more vintage bass.
 
Alot of guys would agree with you but, I've never had that experience. I mix the sound for my band and find the best sound for us is to carve that range out of the kick and my bass fills that spot nicely. Everybody has their place in the mix and can be heard. I like to sit above the kick drum thud and below the kick attack. Some bands do the opposite, depends on what you are going for. I like modern drums and more vintage bass.

That's the sound I'm going for also, modern retro kind of thing. The kick is usually focussed on the subs, with a little snap added in the upper mids. Bass sits largely in the 40-80hz range, with a dip up to 1k or so, then a peak adjusted somewhere in the 1-3k range for presence, and a sharp roll off above 5k to prevent zing and leave room for the airy cimbal stuff.

The human voice is in the 150-250hz range, which is why you don't want to boost bass guitar there. It covers up the vocals. This is also where the electric guitars and keyboards have to compete. I understand and agree that bass guitar sounds great in that range also, but considering the needs of other instruments in that range, the bass guitar loses in that area IMHO when it comes to mixing. If you fill it out below all that, but just above the kick, and then add presence in the upper mids, the bass can still sound great without having to trample everything else. There's more room to work within the bandwidth of the bass guitar than there is with vocals and guitars.

I see this same "boost low mids" advice given pretty often here at TB. It might work in some bands I suppose, but I've never seen this logic applied even once in a professionally mixed event, at least not to my knowledge. In fact, cutting bass in that low midrange is a technique that is taught as part of the curriculum at many universities and technical institutions. YMMV.
 
I agree with Eublet that low mids can be tiresome on a bass recording or even muddy the lows. However I like a little of that range in my bass to give a little body. I just looked at the setting for my Paradriver that I recorded with at home yesterday & it's midrange is set somewhere around the 350 to 500 hz setting, it's hard to tell exactly as there are only 4 graph lines on the mids control. There is a pretty wide curve on the mids setting so there is a bit of overlap. I dont boost any of the eq generally, only ever cuts really & my guerilla home recordings sound good on the cheap with a mic & di on seperate tracks. Granted I'm far from a "proffesional". Igenerally like my bass to be fairly clean & not dissapear completely in a mix.
 
I doubt they did it this time round but I hope they implemented the speaker sim defeat switch properly this time. I like the sound of the regular VT but the high end roll off of their speaker sim sounds fake when using fuzz before it. I would want to defeat that and let the natural roll off from my tweeter-less cab take over - but on the character pedals when you disable the speaker sim it adds an even bigger treble roll off because someone at Tech21 thought that would be a good idea.

Maybe that's what the bite switch is for?

The reason the speaker sim button was added was that players would complain that the pedal was too bright. This had more to do with running the VT Bass into an amp that already had a fair amount of high end and mid scoop. By removing the speaker sim the pedal would be brighter still so hence the speaker sim defeat.

There is a mod to bypass that extra filter on the V2 pedal that involves cutting a trace in the circuit. PM me if you want to do that mod.
 
The reason the speaker sim button was added was that players would complain that the pedal was too bright. This had more to do with running the VT Bass into an amp that already had a fair amount of high end and mid scoop. By removing the speaker sim the pedal would be brighter still so hence the speaker sim defeat.

There is a mod to bypass that extra filter on the V2 pedal that involves cutting a trace in the circuit. PM me if you want to do that mod.

Can you speak more directly to some of the questions we have here on the pedal? Such as:

1) Does the EQ affect the dry signal also?
2) Does engaging the Bite make this one more aggressive than the previous VT models, or is the same when engaged but smoother when disengaged?
3) When do you anticipate shipping these?

Thanks! Can't wait to snag one.
 

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