SBMM SUBs..yes, it's about to become even more confusing

[Balog]

I remember the old SUB's. I liked how they had that satin finish that seemed like it wouldn't ding up as easily.

This line of SUB's seems to be what the others have said. EBMM being the equivalent of USA Fender, Sterling by MusicMan being the equivalent of a MIM/MIJ Fender (haven't played one lately myself), and finally the SUB by SBMM being Squier.

I remember thinking that the old OLP's felt good, but didn't sound anywhere close. The SUB's felt and sounded nearly identical to me-just with a different paint job.

Never been into Stingrays before, but I recently traded into an MTD with a single MusicMan pickup and wow do I love that tone! Makes me want to learn more about them, but as referenced above it's confusing. And I don't want to be the tool who buys a Squier at MIM prices because he can't tell the difference. Let me see if I have this right.

So Ernie Ball Music Man is made in America and the highest quality.

Sterling By Music Man is a step down, ala MIM Fenders.

SUB by SBMM is lower down yet, ala Squier.

SBMM used to also make a different line called the SUB, which was more akin to a regular SBMM but with different finish options but the same electronics.

What was OLP? How do they fit into this picture?

 

[mpdd]

are these 300 dollars wholesale or retail i'm a little confused

 

[jlepre]

I'm still getting the pricing from my dealer, but from what I can gather the street pricing is $279 for a 4, and $299 for a 5.

@Balog you mostly have it right, but the earlier SUB basses were not produced by SBMM, but by EBMM, and were very close to the original SR's but with slab bodies, and textured paint. Very limited options.

 

[king rew]

Never been into Stingrays before, but I recently traded into an MTD with a single MusicMan pickup and wow do I love that tone! Makes me want to learn more about them, but as referenced above it's confusing. And I don't want to be the tool who buys a Squier at MIM prices because he can't tell the difference. Let me see if I have this right.

So Ernie Ball Music Man is made in America and the highest quality.

Sterling By Music Man is a step down, ala MIM Fenders.

SUB by SBMM is lower down yet, ala Squier.

SBMM used to also make a different line called the SUB, which was more akin to a regular SBMM but with different finish options but the same electronics.

What was OLP? How do they fit into this picture?

The original SUB basses were made in America and had different finishes and less contouring to save on production costs. they were great MIA instruments at great prices, but they couldn't stay profitable.

OLP stands for "officially licensed products" and were made in china, I don't think Musicman or Ernie Ball had anything to do with them other than the licensing, but I'm not certain on that.

edit- beat me to it, jlepre

 

[jlepre]

 

[mpdd]

ok, cause it looks like they are between 460 and 500 on ebay

 

[jlepre]

Those prices aren't accurate. These are people in the EU selling their basses for a profit. The roll out was in early July for Europe.

 

[mpdd]

oh ok cool, now i'm really excited again

 

[Balog]

Ah, excellent. Thank you. And the EBMM SUB line had the same electronics as the upper level EBMM?

 

[jlepre]

YES, hence they are hard to find on the used market

 

[Balog]

Hmmm.... and looking into it a bit more, there's a Sterling (company) that makes Stingrays, but there's also a Sterling (model) that EBMM makes? Does Sterling make a Sterling?

 

[jlepre]

SBMM is Sterling by Music Man. They make Stingrays and Sterlings at a discount rate and manufacturered in Indonesia.

 

[jlepre]

Here's the latest info Direct for Pat Park:

Hi John,
1. SBMM is manufactured in Indonesia.
2. Nut width on Ray5 is 45 mm.
3. These will be available stateside September.

Thanks
Pat

 

[eccles77]

You're forgetting something. These aren't real MM basses because they're not made or owned by Music Man. SBMM is not EBMM, their a licensed copy.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that they're doing this, and I've considered picking up at ray34ca many times.

The Sterling basses are made in Indonesia (by Cort I believe). How can you say that they aren`t MM basses? I think Mr Ball would disagree with you on that point. On the more expensive range, the SBMM, it clearly states "Sterling by musicman" Granted they are made by an outside manufacturer but lots of comapnies do this and the profit that they make goes to Ernie Ball/MM. An OLP was liceneced copy (it stands for offically licenced product I think) and some were good and some were shocking but the SBMM are a completly different kettle of fish.
I own a Ray 34 ca and it is a fantastically well made bass and easily as good as the MM ray I owned a few years ago.

 

[jlepre]

Here's my latest info from Pat Park:

patpark
Registered User
Senior Member
Join Date
Jan 2009
Location
Orange County, CA
Posts
759
Originally Posted by jlepre
Thanks Pat,
So are all the measurement specs equal to the EBMM rays for the SR4 & SR5 subs. I have been reading that the SR4 has the same specs as a Sterling as far as nut width. Is that correct?
Very close in specs, but there are some differences. Because the manufacturing is overseas, we have more metric specs. So some of the specs come out a little different, but real close.

USA 5 string nut width is 44.5 mm, ours is 45 mm. Little things like that. Body shapes are identical. Neck shapes vary a bit in thickness. We try to get it as close as possible.

If this information is too much just let me know. I just think we all should have the straight info.

 

[pudgychef]

The Sterling basses are made in Indonesia (by Cort I believe). How can you say that they aren`t MM basses? I think Mr Ball would disagree with you on that point. On the more expensive range, the SBMM, it clearly states "Sterling by musicman" Granted they are made by an outside manufacturer but lots of comapnies do this and the profit that they make goes to Ernie Ball/MM. An OLP was liceneced copy (it stands for offically licenced product I think) and some were good and some were shocking but the SBMM are a completly different kettle of fish.
I own a Ray 34 ca and it is a fantastically well made bass and easily as good as the MM ray I owned a few years ago.

but (imho and from what I have read on the MM forum) it is still closer to the OLP arrangement than a Fender-Squier or Gibson-Epiphone arrangement.

Praxis produces, inspects and distributes all the SBMMs (and handles all servicing/warranty issues) under a license agreement with EBMM - using EBMM designs and trademarks - the relationship is certainly closer than it was in the OLP era though.

I know, up here, stores have to create a new account with a different distributor in order to bring in SBMMs even if they are EBMM dealers...

either way - they are imho very nice instruments

 

[mcnach]

Never been into Stingrays before, but I recently traded into an MTD with a single MusicMan pickup and wow do I love that tone! Makes me want to learn more about them, but as referenced above it's confusing. And I don't want to be the tool who buys a Squier at MIM prices because he can't tell the difference. Let me see if I have this right.

So Ernie Ball Music Man is made in America and the highest quality.

Sterling By Music Man is a step down, ala MIM Fenders.

SUB by SBMM is lower down yet, ala Squier.

SBMM used to also make a different line called the SUB, which was more akin to a regular SBMM but with different finish options but the same electronics.

What was OLP? How do they fit into this picture?

SBMM only started making the SUB this year. But there is another SUB, made between 2003-2006 by EBMM in USA and I think it's only a tiny step down from the EBMM Stingray. Confusing eh? Two very different instruments with the same name... but easy to tell apart as the original SUBs had a characteristic textured paintjob, among other differences.

OLP was just a company that had a license to make EBMM style instruments. They look similar although the shapes were not identical, but build and electronics were very different. Some are dogs. Some are pretty good, and with a couple of upgrades you get a tremendous bass.

 

[mcnach]

Hmmm.... and looking into it a bit more, there's a Sterling (company) that makes Stingrays, but there's also a Sterling (model) that EBMM makes? Does Sterling make a Sterling?

Yes, they call it SB14.
Confused enough yet? :lol:

 

[Balog]

SBMM only started making the SUB this year. But there is another SUB, made between 2003-2006 by EBMM in USA and I think it's only a tiny step down from the EBMM Stingray. Confusing eh? Two very different instruments with the same name... but easy to tell apart as the original SUBs had a characteristic textured paintjob, among other differences.

OLP was just a company that had a license to make EBMM style instruments. They look similar although the shapes were not identical, but build and electronics were very different. Some are dogs. Some are pretty good, and with a couple of upgrades you get a tremendous bass.

So at the risk of going even further afield, is there a difference in the electronics/tone of the Stingray and the Sterling models, either EBMM, SBMM, or EBMM SUB?

 

[jlepre]

I'm not the OP, but can we please stay on topic? Please read the thread as people keep repeating points that have already been discussed.