SBO 23 - Picobass V revival

[joover]

I've been working on 5 string piccolo bass a while back. Suffice to say that there have been mistakes made. To the point, that I'm no not sure if anything actually went well. I'm not going to bother you with failure details. I confess, I gave up on it.

Here are specs:
- ~16mm string spacing at the bridge
- 5 strings
- B to G tuning
- 25" scale
- no plain steel strings to support the point that it's not a guitar

It is a parts build. I've used 7-string guitar neck and body from Warmoth. Afair standard 6-string neck would not allow for desired bridge string spacing.

Changes I'm planning to make:
- Two pickups is one too many. Short distance between them should not make significant tonal difference, and I could use a blade pickup in another build. Pickups are EMG40 size.
- Improve user experience. Knobs are overrate.
- Headstock needs more love. I like 2+3 layout, but it looks fugly here.

 

[2groggy]

- Headstock needs more love. I like 2+3 layout, but it looks fugly here.

OFF WITH ITS' HEAD!

Seriously, the headstock looks fine, but headless, it would make a great travel instrument.

 

[smart51]

What strings are you going to use? I made a 25" scale bass and used the thicker 4 strings from a 5 string set and tuned them EADG. A 25" scale B string is going to be a beast.

 

[2groggy]

By "piccolo", I presumed that @joover would take the low 5 strings from a 7 string guitar set.

 

[Beej]

I think it looks pretty good from here. What are your mistakes? Structural? Critical dimensions? Or just things you'll do differently next time?

Your headstock looks good to me too, and I'm not just being contrarian.

While I'm telling you things, there's always a solid black pickguard to hide the sins of a pickup route. Maybe turn those two routes into a single large bathtub rout to give you more pickup placement options.

 

[joover]

By "piccolo", I presumed that @joover would take the low 5 strings from a 7 string guitar set.

Correct. low 5 strings from a 7 string set with wound 3rd. The original plan called for round wounds, but I'm leaning towards flat wounds today. It's easy to build a set from common strings like D'Addario XLs or GHS boomers, no fancy options though.

11-65 Jazz Light 7-String, XL Chromes Flat Wound Electric Guitar Strings | ECG24-7 | D'Addario

 

[joover]

OFF WITH ITS' HEAD!

Cool idea. I didn't consider it. next time. maybe

 

[Reedt2000]

If you do opt for 2 pickups, consider a 40PX5 for the neck position with a 40DCX at the bridge. They are very different sounding pickups and should give you good tonal variety even though the locations are close. If you do this, you'll have to sew where the coil separation in the 40PX5 falls to make sure its not directly under a string.

 

[smart51]

If you do opt for 2 pickups, consider a 40PX5 for the neck position with a 40DCX at the bridge. They are very different sounding pickups and should give you good tonal variety even though the locations are close. If you do this, you'll have to sew where the coil separation in the 40PX5 falls to make sure its not directly under a string.

With 16mm spacing at the bridge, 35PX5 and 35DCX will work and may fit a smaller body better.

 

[Reedt2000]

With 16mm spacing at the bridge, 35PX5 and 35DCX will work and may fit a smaller body better.

OP says routes are 40 sized

But the P and DC is a nice combo

 

[joover]

I think it looks pretty good from here. What are your mistakes? Structural? Critical dimensions? Or just things you'll do differently next time?

I'd attribute mistakes to luck of experience. Finish was the main culprit. I would try finish on a scrap piece, but not 100% as it would go on. I had to sand it down 3 or 4 times. Lessons learned:
- Chemicals do not mix well. Test exactly as it's going to go on. Sealer, filler, tint, top coat.
- If you live in a warmer climate, check if it's a winter outside (sometimes one may forget). Temperature matters when applying finish.
- Don't even bother using "similar" wood to test translucent tinted finish. It's gonna look different.
- Don't forget to wipe off oil if applied in excess, or just don't apply in access to begin with. I'm afraid neck and fretboard are gonna stay as they are today.
- You may not be able to send down tinted finish afterwards. I've attempted to do a matched headstock, as a result headstock is barely thick enough to accommodate tuners and there are still red and black spots.
- Avoid torrefied ash for a body. I did a build with torrefied ash before and it was ok. This body is too brittle. It's easy to put a deep dent with a fingernail. Specks of dust hardly held together.

There were some aesthetic annoyances. I'm using solo bridges and decided to place them collinear with strings. Bridges would form an arc, rather than being parallel to each other. It was subtle, yet it looked like subtle inability drill holes as intended.

I didn't plan for grounding solo bridges early on. As a result ferrules became a mess.

Just all those small issues adding up together. There has be no major failures so far

 

[joover]

With 16mm spacing at the bridge, 35PX5 and 35DCX will work and may fit a smaller body better.

There were emg 40hz in classifieds at the time. An easy way to make a decision

 

[joover]

While I'm telling you things, there's always a solid black pickguard to hide the sins of a pickup route. Maybe turn those two routes into a single large bathtub rout to give you more pickup placement options.

I'm not a fan of pickguards. I've filled everything back with wood. I'm going to surface top and bottom down by ~1/4" and 1/8" accordingly and sandwich the body between walnut laminates.

Here is what body looks like right now.

Work in progress

And proof of clamping

 

[eddododo]

What are you using for a bridge? Sorry if I missed it..

having recently built what I called an ‘alto’ bass (BEADG up an octave, 28”), I have one little note about a) the bridge and b) the pickups /volume

for the bridge- hipshot, below about 17.5mm, gets rid of the walls that separates the saddles from eachother- this has led to a lot of weird wiggles and clicks from the saddles bumping eachother

for the pickups- I have found that the bass pickups I’ve used are pretty quiet with strings that approach guitar gauge and thinner.. just worth keeping in mind.
Edit* they are quiet when compared to both a ‘regular’ bass and a guitar, judged by the level LED indicator on my compressor

 

[J Posega]

Cool. I just setup a cheap headless bass I got from Amazon as a piccolo, EADG, with the top strings from a Bass VI set (I broke the low E trying to install it on one of my VIs, so the rest of the strings stayed in the pack). It's fun.

To your point, @joover, about there not being much difference in tone between two pickups that close together, I find that at really short scale lengths, there's a noticeable difference in tone at much smaller intervals because the harmonics are closer together. Even so, I would also prefer a single middle or neck pickup on a piccolo; bridge pickup is a bit too thin - might as well just play a (yuck) guitar.

 

[joover]

What are you using for a bridge? Sorry if I missed it..

I'm using hipshot guitar solo bridges. I did test fit to check for saddle compensation and height. My main gripe with bridge so far is poor black coating. Coating is easily scratched off by saddles under normal tension.

Solo™ - Single String Guitar Bridge

for the bridge- hipshot, below about 17.5mm, gets rid of the walls that separates the saddles from eachother- this has led to a lot of weird wiggles and clicks from the saddles bumping eachother

Could you please share a photo? I'm not sure if I would consider guitar solo bridges for another project, but couldn't think of an alternative.

for the pickups- I have found that the bass pickups I’ve used are pretty quiet with strings that approach guitar gauge and thinner.. just worth keeping in mind.
Edit* they are quiet when compared to both a ‘regular’ bass and a guitar, judged by the level LED indicator on my compressor

Oops. I didn't test pickup volume and I can't put it back together any more Thank you for the heads up.

 

[joover]

To your point, @joover, about there not being much difference in tone between two pickups that close together, I find that at really short scale lengths, there's a noticeable difference in tone at much smaller intervals because the harmonics are closer together. Even so, I would also prefer a single middle or neck pickup on a piccolo; bridge pickup is a bit too thin - might as well just play a (yuck) guitar.

Shorter scale length vs pickup positions makes sense. Thanks. I should have clarified that 2 pickups I have are the same (there is no bridge/neck differentiation). I meant tonal difference between same pickups vs different bridge / neck pickups. Although, truth be told, I've made decision to go with a single pickup disregarding tone. I want no knobs or switches on the body. Having 2 pickups and not being able to switch between them feels awkward.

 

[J Posega]

I've seen some cheap MusicMan style bridges that support 16mm string spacing. You could also use a bridge with threaded saddles on it like this.

You'd probably need to thread your guitar strings through cut-off bass ball ends so they don't slip through the bridge.

 

[joover]

While waiting for top/bottom lumber to arrive, I've made an attempt to improve the headstock. So far I'm down to 4 options:

#0 as is.

#1 original shape 3+2.

#2 silm 3 +2.

#3 short 2 + 3.

Which one do you like the most and how would you tweak it further? Either option will get walnut veneer matching body top.

 

[Reedt2000]

I don't know, I'm thinking this is a matter of "is the juice worth the squeeze"? IMHO the options are so similar to the original I wouldn't change it. Just my $0.02

There is some blank space, maybe an inlay? Decal? To add some interest and make it custom?