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Scales Necessary?
- Thread starter MikeTB
- Start date
Scales, and the intervals that make them, are the basis of the musical language that you strive to speak with fluency and grace. Practicing them also trains your muscles... improving your technique and slowly your efficiency of motion.
Just run through some scales now and then.
Just run through some scales now and then.
For the love of every other musician you will ever play with, please learn them.
You can start really slow. I teach intervals first and then scales and chords, leading into modes and chord tones.
At least know your intervals and major/minor scales in every key. Preferably modes as well. Learn the chord tones involved in a minor vs augmented chord. Then, if you don't know something (say somebody pulls an egyptian scale) you can ask for the intervals and they'll say
" root, minor third, perfect 4th, augmented 4th, perfect 5th, minor 7, octave". Even though I'm sure I butchered the technical names for those intervals, an educated musician could play them and bundle them into chords.
You can start really slow. I teach intervals first and then scales and chords, leading into modes and chord tones.
At least know your intervals and major/minor scales in every key. Preferably modes as well. Learn the chord tones involved in a minor vs augmented chord. Then, if you don't know something (say somebody pulls an egyptian scale) you can ask for the intervals and they'll say
" root, minor third, perfect 4th, augmented 4th, perfect 5th, minor 7, octave". Even though I'm sure I butchered the technical names for those intervals, an educated musician could play them and bundle them into chords.
It's essential to learn the major scale to play bass. Unlike guitar, you can't rely on two moveable chords for your whole life. You really need to understand which notes will fit over which chords, unless you want to be stuck playing root notes forever.
And for the people who are saying it's more important to learn chord tones... It's really no different than learning the scales. First you learn the 1st, 3rd, and 5th. You play those for a while, but then you want to throw in a 7th over that dominant 7th chord. Then you want to add the 9th. Then the 11th. Then the 13th.
Now you're playing a major scale.
And for the people who are saying it's more important to learn chord tones... It's really no different than learning the scales. First you learn the 1st, 3rd, and 5th. You play those for a while, but then you want to throw in a 7th over that dominant 7th chord. Then you want to add the 9th. Then the 11th. Then the 13th.
Now you're playing a major scale.
No, you're playing a mixolydian mode
Do you want to explain to the student in the first lesson on scales why the dominant chord has a flat 7, and why they have to change the major scale you just taught them?
+1. Better to just "bite the bullet" and learn them.
Learning them gives you a better command of the fretboard.
Lots of good posts. In particular, I think Ed F's post is right on the money - very well said. If you can play all major and minor scales (natural, harmonic, melodic) in 2 octaves in all twelve keys - around the circle of 5'ths - at various tempi and if you've reached a point where you find that to be unchallenging, then perhaps you can say with some credibility that scales are boring.
Learning scale is necessary. But if you are not familiar with chord tones then study them 1st.
Scales are not meant to play in ascending or descending fashion. They shows what notes are available for certain chords. Transcribe solo and walking bass and see how the great players use scale notes to construct lines.
Scales are not meant to play in ascending or descending fashion. They shows what notes are available for certain chords. Transcribe solo and walking bass and see how the great players use scale notes to construct lines.
- Jan 12, 2011
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- Artist, Trickfish Amplification Bartolini Emerging Artist, MTD Kingston Emerging Artist. Artist, Tsunami Cables
I'm actively engaged in studying music theory. Imagine that, a bass player that wants to know more about what it is he is doing. I am taking a chordal approach to my study. I am concentrating more on what makes up a chord, and the types of chords there are, and what types of chords go with the scale degrees. This involves interval and ear training. I also practice making up a bass line over chord progressions and substituting another note in that chord beside the root. At first this sounds (literally) very corny. This is increasing my fretboard knowledge and my ear is getting bigger. So much that, I'm often tempted to just start jamming on a new combo of notes or something I hear becasue my confidence is increasing in hearing the intervals and playing what I hear is at my fingertiips. This to me is much more musical than rote memorization of scales and playing them. If you stick with the chord, you won't go wrong. Often as a bass player we we asked to outline the harmony as well as keep time with the drummer and not asked to make scalar or modular runs. This is to me a faster, more economical way to study the bass as opposed to memorzing and practicing scales. Arpeggios and interval, and ear training are great for learning your fretboard and becoming a more musical bassist. This of course is just my subjective opinion. Also by figuring out bass lines over chord changes you can learn how to read music faster. You actually take a piece of staff paper and write out your lessons and bass lines that you created yourself. As you do this over and over your reading skills also improve etc.
- Jan 12, 2011
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- Artist, Trickfish Amplification Bartolini Emerging Artist, MTD Kingston Emerging Artist. Artist, Tsunami Cables
I would say the difference is in the approach and focus of study. Instead of having my student run a scale for two octaves I'd rather he or she be able to tell me what type of chord goes with or is played for a scale degree. Instead of running scales for two octaves I'd have them run the applicable arpeggios up and down the fingerboard. Instead of playing a scale for two octaves I'd rather that when he or she hears the word augmented or diminshed, hmm we're dealing with the 5. If they hear minor right away the 3rd is flatted. And before they can run a scale for two octaves show me the fingering or two for playing a root to minor 3rd. Memorizing the intervals and fingerings for the intervals/appeggios will make a more muscial bass player faster. I'm not discounting scales I'm just emphasizing an approach. And yes with a new student I would introduce him to the key of C, the notes of the scale, and what types of chords go with each scale degree. This is where so many bass instructors go wrong with their students. There is nothing musical about running or practicing the fingering of a scale. When a beginner comes to you he or she already has heard songs they like. They have already heard the chords. Intead of making them practice something that sounds nothing like what they want to learn to play. Invite them to get the sheet music to their favorite songs and break it down for them. You can get the lesson in still. It's like putting vegetables in fruit juice. they are getting the taste they like but still getting the good stuff with it. Oh well this could be a chicken and egg thing. Sorry about ranting. It's all good and all bass. You say tomato type of thing. Most times when I show up to a new muscical adventure or an audtiion, I'm given a chord chart, to follow. Sometimes, too we have to teach our students that there is nothing wrong with playing the root note. Especially if you're playing with a keyboard player
- Jan 12, 2011
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- Artist, Trickfish Amplification Bartolini Emerging Artist, MTD Kingston Emerging Artist. Artist, Tsunami Cables
I've been playing bass for little, over a year.
I do not have a teacher just the computer
I play bass for the fun, i really enjoy playing.
I like to learn lots of covers, so I have the memory, and hand coordination. my main problem, is learning songs without tabs:scowl:
I thought scales might help that.
Thanks for all the answers, any help on learning songs without tabs
Michael
Mike want to take the fun out of bass. Get yourself one of those serious teachers that will drill you with constant boring drills, and musical technicality. Want to play bass and have fun for a long time. Find your self a teacher who loves playing the bass just as much as you do. Some guys teach you the technical stuff but a real teacher will teach you how to play the bass. It's great combination of science, art, musicianship and physicality. A good teacher will know this already and guide you along the way with suggestions, not standards and Gospels according to them. I teach my students that there are many ways to skin a cat. I might play the same passage as you but because of how we may be built (physically) different it may be easier for you to play it a certain way and the same goes for me. And you know what, both us us would be right. If you look at any signature, killer bass player they learned how to play bass the way they can play bass. Of course there are basics but there is alot of room for individual solutions. I say all of this to say, get yourself a teacher. Someone you can sit down with face to face. Online stuff is cool but there is nothing like one on one time where someone can show you live how it's done. Heck I still take lessons when I can and I've been playing for 41 years. Learning songs without tabs..there are only a few solutions, continuing like you are by doing it by ear. which is IMO excellent training. learning tab, or take the first step to the next phase. After you have learned a section by ear, get a some music paper and begin to write out the notes that you are playing. If you do not know the notes on the staff, get a teacher and parctice and stusy in this way. Soon you'll become proficient in reading and writing music.
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Look, you're all more than welcome to think I'm full of ****, it's really no skin off my nose. There's soundfiles either Invalid Link Removed or here, if this is a direction or level of playing that you are not interested in, then don't bother to take any advice I've given. If it IS, then it may be to your advantage to listen to my advice about what got me there.
Or not. Good luck with that.
Have a blessed day.
Or not. Good luck with that.
Have a blessed day.
Why does evidence of your playing have anything to do with your opinion as a teacher?
I think you're relying on one of the biggest misconceptions about teaching to get your point across.
That's Higgs Boson, not Boson Higgs!
Yeah, my scale knowledge is pretty sketchy too.
No, you're playing a mixolydian mode
Nice catch
But the point still stands. If you're going to teach chord tones, you might as well just teach the full scale. It seems counter-intuitive to try and teach a person to play the 1st, 3rd, and 5th without giving him the notes in the context of the scale. That would just leave me puzzled. 1st, 3rd, and 5th of what? And what happened to the 2nd and 4th?
Why not just give the students the full 7 tone scale and then identify which notes are the tones for each chord?
