Fergie Fulton,
Thank you! I understand everything
everyones advice was good but yours really clicked with me thank you. I've been working with it already and understanding it
Then i will review the Major Scales that use flats and leave it at that.
So we have the C Major scale then cut it in half and use the lower half as the upper half, then extend back down to the root. The root is the first note used and where a scale takes its name from.
Below are the scales formed when they are cut in half. They are bare, no sharps of flats added.
C D E F G A B C
F G A B C D E F
B C D E F G A B
E F G A B C D E
A B C D E F G A
D E F G A B C D
G A B C D E F G
C D E F G A B C
As we can see we started with C and after seven cuts we end up back at C.
This was also true when we used sharps.
With analysis we will make the scale conform to T T S T T T S using the same logic we used when we constructed with sharps.
So it is the 4th that always will need to be lowered in all new scales with flats. Altering no other note will do, try it and see.
So if we now add the correct amount of flats in order to the blank scales
C gets none
F gets 1 and it is Bb
Bb gets 2 and they are Bb, Eb
Eb gets 3 and they are Bb, Eb, Ab
Ab gets 4 and they are Bb, Eb, Ab, Db
Db gets 5 and they are Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb
Gb gets 6 and they are Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb,
Cb gets 7 and they are Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb
As we can see new sharps stay in place when the new scale is formed.
When we used sharps we used the acronym,
Father Charles Goes Down And Enters Battle.
If we look at the order of flats it is backwards to the use of sharps.
So we remember them in the same sort of way, so it is now,
Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles Father.
So when writing keys with flats the order is always the same ( as it is with sharps ) so write out and form all the scales, then add the flats and you will have all the Major scales that use flats.
C D E F G A B C
F G A Bb C D E F
Bb C D Eb F G A Bb
Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db
Gg Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb Cb
So we learn that scales are made up of tones and semitones.
These tones and semitones have a specific order.
We use 7 letters of the alphabet to name the note
A sharp will raise a note a semi tone, a flat will lower a note a semitone.
We can see the order of flats can be related to the order of sharps by the fact their orders are just reversed,F C G D A E B or B E A D G C F
The scales the flats use are based on the 4th note of each new scale, so it is in fact a cycle of 4th that use flats, cycle of 5ths uses sharps.
Sharps and flats cannot be mixed in scales and keys, it is one or the other.
Some scales starting the same space between notes but have different names such as Db or C# and Gb or F#. This is common and defines the key.
The key gets defined so when you read music you are always in right area, nothing is rigid and has to be defined.
This is why learning scales and fingering helps you anticipate what may, could, and should happen in that "area".
I feel I should not let it stop here, so I will expand the idea with a simple rule change and some observations that you should heed.
There will be many other forms of scales that will follow on from these ideas so let me expand in to minor keys.
Because you have un-knowingly learned all the natural minor scales let me expose them to you in what you have learned.
The reason the letters we use repeat is they are pitches, that is how high or low a note sounds.
This becomes very apparent when notated on manuscript.
So if
A B (C) D E F G A B (C)D E F G A B (C) D E F G A B (C) D E etc
is repeated, ( the bracket (C) shows the position of each new octave) then so must the order of tones and semitones.
To relate to the notes above they also would go
T S * T T S T T T S*T T S T T T S *T T S T T T S *T T S T T T S *T T etc
( the * indicates the same octave position and the (C) in relation to the intervals used)
An interval is correct name for the space between the notes.
Each scale note is called a degree, so a standard scale has 7 degrees and 7 intervals. Degrees are written in Roman numerals to avoid confusion. ( but not here just now)
Scale degrees only relate to the scale being used or named.
To make a natural minor scale we just lower the 3rd and 7th degree of any Major scale.
Do this to C Major and you now have Cminor, do it to A Major and it becomes A minor, etc etc.
So everything that has been learned about Major scales applies except that rule 1. about the intervals, because we have change that by lowering the 3rd and 7th degree.
So we have in fact now a new order of intervals that read
T S T T S T T
and of we look to that repeating order of intervals we will find it in there.
T S T T S T T T S T T S T T T S T T S T T T S T T S T T T S T T
So when we use T S T T S T T we have 7 new intervals and 8 scale degrees with new notes.
So it follows as you work through lowering the 3rd and 7th degrees of the Major scales you create the minor version of them.
But one more thing to consider.
If the notes, and therefore the intervals repeat then certain scales will share the same attributes.
If in fact I play any Major scale over two octaves there will be a natural minor scale in there because the main order of intervals does not change...we just change starting position within them.
The / shows the start and end of a Major scale over two octaves, and the () show the minor scale within it.
It should now become apparent that these Major and minor scales all have 5 tones and 2 semitones in them. So it could easly be a minor scale over two octaves with a Major scale in it somewhere.
T S /T T S T T (T S T T S T T )T S /T T S T T T S T T S T T T S T T
So in fact C Major is in A minor, so A minor must be in CMajor when we extend any of these scale over two octaves. This is called a relative minor or relative Major and every scale will have one.
CMajor is the relative Major of A minor and vica versa.
So keys must and do follow the same patten.
When practicing scales this is how it is done.
They are learned as an octave, but practiced to its full extention over the neck.
So on a bass we always start on the lowest degree available to the scale and take it to the highest.
So to play a C major scale we actually start on the open E string and play
E F G A B C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C D
and in doing so we also practice the minor scale....there is no use to learning them separate because they are in fact related....as we no know.
That said, playing a C minor scale follows the same principle because some where in it will be an FMajor scale.
Well I say some where, it is on the 6th degree of any Major Scale to find the relative minor or the 3rd degree of any natural minor scale to find the Major.
So if anyone practices scales over the octave by splitting them in to Major and minor, they in fact practice wrong, that's why when they play it sound like they are running scales, it is why their playing has no "colour" to it.
Once this is learned and understood, then chord tones are next to learn and that is easy to learn because they build on all this....as do many other musical ideas.
I hope this little part of the thread has proved fun and interesting and made a few points about why scales are important to learn and understand, how they improve your over all playing and learning skills, but mostly how the relationships between ideas can be traced back to one basic premise which is the order of intervals.
Have fun with it all.
