Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience

[Sam Reese]

I stand corrected! I just looked at the EA Doubler v1 manual and noticed the very small and totally under advertised trim pot on the top of the amp. Bonus!

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

AFAIC those extra-tiny heads might be a little too small & light for my liking. I have never so much as noticed the weight of my LMII or Quilter in a padded laptop shoulder bag and I have never once ever had to make an extra trip on their account.
YMMV but I'll take that extra bit of room to get my fingers around the knobs and an extra pound or so to keep the amp from vibrating off the cab.

Keep the amp from vibrating... $7 bar mat... Perfect... 12 inches by 18 inches. Works for me.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Keep the amp from vibrating... $7 bar mat... Perfect... 12 inches by 18 inches. Works for me.

View attachment 4187434

Will a door mat work, in a pinch?

 

[Jesuguru]

Keep the amp from vibrating... $7 bar mat... Perfect... 12 inches by 18 inches. Works for me.

View attachment 4187434

...And doubles as a drink holder if there's room next to the amp. BONUS!

 

[IvanMike]

FWIW, I have never had anything vibrate off of my amp and I play loud. Proper cab design is a wonderful thing.

 

[Core Creek]

I’ve been using a first generation Peavey Minimax for a little over a year and absolutely love it. The tone is neutral and I can easily get a sound I like. As far as volume it’s a beast and I’ve used it from duo acoustic work to large 7 piece cover bands.... never got the volume past 7. The built in tuner is so convenient. There is talk of the direct-out failing on the first gens but I’ve never had to use mine, and while the fan is loud, I never notice it while I’m playing. For under $300 used its a workhorse and I’m very happy with it.

I’ve considered a TC Bam 200 just to have something small and lightweight but I still haven’t found the need.

The Peavey in action:

 

[dougjwray]

I have experience with three Class D amps (i currently own all three):

GK MB200
Trace Elliot Elf
Fender Rumble 500 v3 head

Since you're interested in amps which will fit in a gig bag pocket, I'll skip the Rumble.

Both the MB200 and the Elf have been 100% reliable.

On paper, they're comparable power-wise, but the Elf just seems louder to me. It has compression, and can also get overdriven if you max the gain. These things make it *seem* a bit more tube-like to me than the GK. It's very mid-range heavy... I've been known to turn the mid-range control all the way counterclockwise to get the sound I want. (Like maybe approximating Duck Dunn's tone.)

The GK is more balanced, low to high, and has the modern sheen that I think makes them sound different from the old RBs. It does NOT have the "gutsy" character of the Elf; it's more refined. It has more features, too: two mid-range controls, an aux in, a pre/post switch for the XLR out, and a direct/headphone out.

The Elf's fan can be heard turning on and off as you play and stop playing. This concerned me, at first... but the fan is quiet enough, and apparently this behavior is normal. The Elf also gets warm -- if not hot -- after a few minutes of use. But that's normal, too. The GK doesn't get hot and is dead quiet.

So, I like using the GK for recording and in situations where a refined sound is desired. The Elf can sound fuller and grittier, and is great for rooms which are very live. (The mid-range helps there.)

All my subjective impressions. I'm not a tech-oriented person. Hope this helped!

 

[Gary Stevens]

I’m laughing as I write this because I used to be the co-moderator of this forum years ago and I may be breaking several of my rules for posting.

I haven’t followed recent events with the new ultra small ultralight ultra portable class D amplifier heads that have become quite popular lately. I’ve only been peripherally aware of them. However, I am interested in getting one for practices and smaller gigs. I’ve got no intention of replacing my main rig and I’m quite aware that it’s unfair to compare them directly against one another.

The portable head that it has to beat is an old SWR electric blue had which is 14” x 14” x 5” and tips the scale at 14 pounds. The rated wattage of that unit is 150 into four and 120 into eight.

A disclaimer about wattage: I’ve been around long enough and done enough A/B comparisons to know that there is the wattage that the manufacturer claims for their amplifier, and then there is what you actually experience. I’m less interested in what the amplifier says on the package, I’m a lot more interested in what you have actually experienced. Especially if you have put two or three or more of these little heads up against one another and found out which ones are actually louder than the others. I won’t bore you with the war stories but I have certainly seen “standard” amplifiers blow other “standard” amplifiers out of the water that were rated at four times the wattage. (I’m not going to mention that these might have been the old Trace Elliot amplifiers and the Aguilar DB 750). If one amp is significantly louder than another, let me know.

Tone itself is of course subjective. However I would be interested in your thoughts here as well, especially if you have had the opportunity to do direct comparisons.

otherwise, portability is certainly a factor, otherwise I would not be writing this. It seems like they are all the same ballpark in terms of weight being somewhere around 3 to 5 pounds give or take. I’m a little more interested in actual outside dimensions and if they fit in something like a gig bag. Being able to carry a gig bag and a small cabinet and be done with it is kind of a holy Grail.

in the future I might inquire about how the small and light cabinet scene is these days. I’m not about to give up my bag and cabinets, and anybody who has been around a long time those that I was quite a champion for them. However, despite being compact they are on the heavy side. I do miss my GS 112 but I know that there are quite a few cabinets that have popped up in the last 10 years or so.

Anyhow, let me know your experiences. How they stacked up to one another in terms of volume and tone. How well you’re able to fit it in a gig bag or something like that. If you experienced problems, what were they? If you picked one over the others after doing comparisons, why?

Just to be clear, if you have opinions without experience I’m really not interested in that. And comments that little class the amplifiers are no good or will never be as good as regular class A or class B amplifiers are exactly helpful either. Remember, I’m not looking to replace anything, just for another option. Edit: “class D amps are great” without letting me know which one you like and why isn’t super helpful either.

thanks a lot in advance ~ Ivan

 

[Gary Stevens]

I have been a bass player for a decade. I have been heavily into hifi since 1970. Bass and hifi have a few things in common; Clean, clear sound and accurate bass frequencies down to 40 hz. I have been designing and building speaker cabinets also since 1970. I use a tech21 vt preamp and a QSC GX7 power amp. I am happy with both. The QSC puts out 1000 watts per side. It is a combination of analog, class d and class h architecture. My studio hifi amp is another QSC which is class d. Both are super clean with no issues. Class d allows a smaller amp package without giving up tone. Speaker cabinets require significant internal volume in order to produce lows with efficiency. Size counts. A small speaker cabinet with an 8" driver will suffer from doppler distortion at any usable volume, muddying up the tone. Bottom line; class d is fine. Multiple 10s, 12s or a 15" will produce nice lows. It's physics. I play classic rock, rockabilly, blues and motown, so a firm and clear low end is important.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I've used nothing but class D amps at gigs for the last dozen years or so. They're a proven technology that works.

Every manufacturer makes them a little different in terms of tone, size and how much they lie about watts. Just like every other type of amp.

So which ones did you choose and why? Were there ones that you did not like that you decided not to go with and why?

My 2¢:

My favorite class D amps are boutiques made by Reiner Amplification. They are hybrids with all-tube hand-wired front ends. Not sure if it's the preamp or something else, but they have more 'heft' (or something) than other Class D amps I've tried. I own his original, the Studio 1200 (yes, 1200W), and his second iteration, the VHF700 (700W, and his ratings are honest). He then came out with a third iteration, the Saturn V, which I think is the best of the bunch, but Reiner amps are expensive, and the two I own sound plenty great enough, so I couldn't justify a third. Note: he's a one-man shop and currently on pause for personal reasons, including moving to a different state, but he plans to resume gear production. If you don't mind spending a little more, keep an eye out. I don't think he has a website, but there's a Reiner megathread here.

I've also owned a number of non-boutique Class D amps. An early favorite was the Aguilar TH500. I liked it, but the Gain and Drive knobs were non-intuitive to me so I never fell in love. Next was the Mesa Subway D800+. Really liked that, amazing features and performance for the price, but it was squeaky clean so I sold that and got the Darkglass 900v2 because of the onboard distortion modules (two different flavors). Darkglass has a rep for being modern metal only, but that's unfair: I've dialed in OD tones that pleased the fussiest traditionalists. Note: I can dirty up any amp with the overdrive pedals I own, but sometimes play gigs where I don't have time or room to set 'em up, so I like to carry an amp with onboard OD.

 

[Bob McAlister]

Let me first say that I'm a GK kind off guy. I've had a RB 700, then had a RB 1000 with various GK neo cabs. I decided that I needed a ' retirement ' rig so I bought an MB500 and picked up a GK 115 Neo cabinet to go with it. To me the MB 500 sounds a lot like my 700 and 1000, but with less power. I play at 2 small churches very Sunday and ( before, hopefully after Covid ) I play in a 70's singer/songwriter duo in small-ish pubs. The 500 and its' cords fit in a laptop bag. Both are very lightweight and good to my back. I'm pretty spry, but I'm

GK MB 500 4lbs approx. Back up amp.
Small, size of a book and loud 350 W @ 8 ohms. 500W @ 4 ohms.

TC RH 450, 9 lbs approx. I like it for the features, built in tuner, compressor,
mute, 4 band EQ, tube emulation, 3 memory banks and footswitch to
control it. My main amp.
I carry my amp in a large laptop bag that also holds
all cables, charts and accessories needed for a gig.

approaching 70 years old at the end of this month. I have 3 Jazz basses with different pup brands and configurations along with a P-bass and a Deluxe 4401 Lakland skyline w/ Nordstrands and a Bart preamp...all 4 strings. In a nutshell, I'm pretty happy with what I've got!

 

[Marlon Carbone]

I was at Summer NAMM once. While there, Traynor was displaying their new, small combo amps. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse. If I played on their promo video for NAMM, they would give me a 1X12 combo amp. The amp weighs in @ about 25lbs (about 11-12 Kg). It's rated @ 250 watts.

This little amp is pure monster. It's got a great tone (for me). My low B is a touch anemic on it, but the amp is loud enough that I've used it at open mics and jamming with bands... and it keeps up. Admittedly, I avoid guitar players that think their amp only sounds good when everything is turned all the way up... that would be the only way this amp would not keep up.

It has an tweeter defeat. It has an Aux in (which, if you're smart, can be used as a return). It does not have any way to connect external speakers nor does it have a master volume. If I were to buy an amp, it would need a master volume. If you want grit on this amp, you have to turn it up to painful levels. If you want your clean sound, the only way to get more volume it to turn up the gain. However, for my playing style, I get plenty of volume at the right amount of grit. I can still slap with the tweeter engaged and it sounds great. I can put 100% to the neck pickup and get a very good classic tone. I can pull it back to the bridge pup and I get a very passable Jaco tone (at volume).

I would not hesitate to use this amp at small gigs and rehearsal.

SB112 – Traynor Amps

 

[ad9000]

I've been through an embarrassing number of Class D lightweight heads in the last 10 or 12 years. Cabs used were mostly the same for all (Bergantino NV212T, EA VL-210, Bill Jenkins 112) Here is the list with my basic take on each one:

MarkBass Little Mark Tube 800: good old-school tone with low-mid emphasis but not really capable of glassy top end or a neutral "hi-fi" sound, mushy power section which collapsed noticeably when the amp was pushed. Guess I'm not a MarkBass guy.
EA iAmp Micro300: EA got it right the first time (almost). This little guy sounded great - hi-fi and neutral with just enough low end warmth, translated the sound of each bass very well. Unfortunately too underpowered for most situations, so I had to let it go.
EA Doubler II: Swiss Army knife features, especially for upright or upright and electric together, but sterile and somewhat metallic sound, very little range in tone controls, barely adequate power (would go into thermal shutdown occasionally with 8 ohm cab).
GK MB Fusion 800: Power for days, excellent feature set, versatile and sensible tone controls. I am just not a fan of the overall tone - too much coloration for me and found it didn't mate well with my cabs. Sounds better with GK cabs I think.
Darkglass Microtubes 900: Nice overall tone and adequate power, but indescribably not a very inspiring amp to play through. Probably better for those that make use of the extensive distortion features, which I did not.
Genz Benz Streamliner 900: One trick pony but a very good one trick pony - I'd describe it as a "rock" amp. Punchy and warm at the same time, which is not an easy thing to pull off in a micro. Good headroom, sounded killer with P-bass. Wish I'd kept it.
Genz Benz ShuttleMAX 12.2: Slightly on the clinical side and a little oversized but very good overall - more than adequate power, excellent tone controls, superb DI out, great feature set, sounded good with every bass and cab. I'm stupid not to have kept it.
TecAmp Puma 900: Borrowed one for a while. Lacking in warmth, sounded kind of squashed and ugly in the high-mid region when pushed hard, uninspiring tone overall. Not a fan.
Mesa Subway D-800+: (current): Good headroom even @8 ohms, lots of punch, sounds great with every bass and cab, cuts well in a band mix. Slightly on the dark side tonally, but I've got other (larger) amps that do the shimmery high end thing if I want that.
Demeter Minnie 800D: is power amp only but Class D. I use it occasionally with either Kern or Alembic F-2B preamps, and that is a killer rig. The only neg is I have pushed it into momentary thermal shutdown a few times, so not dependable on super loud gigs.
One more: Quilter Bass Block. I tried one for a couple of days and absolutely hated the tone control configuration. I found it impossible to dial in a good balance of low and high end. Please don't try to be clever, just give me bass, treble and mid controls.

 

[agedhorse]

I have been a bass player for a decade. I have been heavily into hifi since 1970. Bass and hifi have a few things in common; Clean, clear sound and accurate bass frequencies down to 40 hz. I have been designing and building speaker cabinets also since 1970. I use a tech21 vt preamp and a QSC GX7 power amp. I am happy with both. The QSC puts out 1000 watts per side. It is a combination of analog, class d and class h architecture. My studio hifi amp is another QSC which is class d. Both are super clean with no issues. Class d allows a smaller amp package without giving up tone. Speaker cabinets require significant internal volume in order to produce lows with efficiency. Size counts. A small speaker cabinet with an 8" driver will suffer from doppler distortion at any usable volume, muddying up the tone. Bottom line; class d is fine. Multiple 10s, 12s or a 15" will produce nice lows. It's physics. I play classic rock, rockabilly, blues and motown, so a firm and clear low end is important.

Note that the GX-7 is SMPS/class H not class D

 

[Mike Rettig]

The bottom line for me is they don't sound good.
I have an SVT4 that I just can't lug around any more and I thought class D was the answer. My first purchase a Mesa Boogie Subway D800. It sounded so bad (to me) I thought it was defective. I exchanged the D800 for an Aguilar TH500. It was better but not by much. I sold it and bought a used SVT3. It's half the weight of the SVT4 but still heavy. Sounds great. Finally, still searching for something lightweight, I bought a GK legacy 500 matched with a GK NEO 112. This is the best so far but still nothing like the SVTs. At this point I'm tolerating it for the lightweight convenience.

 

[Jeff Scott]

...QSC GX7 power amp. ..... It is a combination of analog, class d and class h architecture.

I was just going to ask if this is a thing until I read this:

Note that the GX-7 is SMPS/class H not class D

 

[Wicked G]

The bottom line for me is they don't sound good.
I have an SVT4 that I just can't lug around any more and I thought class D was the answer. My first purchase a Mesa Boogie Subway D800. It sounded so bad (to me) I thought it was defective. I exchanged the D800 for an Aguilar TH500. It was better but not by much. I sold it and bought a used SVT3. It's half the weight of the SVT4 but still heavy. Sounds great. Finally, still searching for something lightweight, I bought a GK legacy 500 matched with a GK NEO 112. This is the best so far but still nothing like the SVTs. At this point I'm tolerating it for the lightweight convenience.

If you were to match the Legacy 500 with 2 NEO 112's it would sound much better due to coupling. Even when I am just playing around at home with the GK I always connect both cabs because it sounds so much better.

Have you tried running the Legacy through the same cab that you use the SVT with?

 

[Plain Old Barry]

Keep the amp from vibrating... $7 bar mat... Perfect... 12 inches by 18 inches. Works for me.

View attachment 4187434

Or free, if you wink at the bartender...

 

[Plain Old Barry]

FWIW, I have never had anything vibrate off of my amp and I play loud. Proper cab design is a wonderful thing.

I don't know if it's proper or not, but I've seen stuff walk off of tour quality PA gear.

I think I know you, as I also currently live in MTown. You wouldn't happen to be in a band with the initials BITD?

 

[MGCollis]

GK MB 500 4lbs approx. Back up amp.
Small, size of a book and loud 350 W @ 8 ohms. 500W @ 4 ohms.

TC RH 450, 9 lbs approx. I like it for the features, built in tuner, compressor,
mute, 4 band EQ, tube emulation, 3 memory banks and footswitch to
control it. My main amp.
I carry my amp in a large laptop bag that also holds
all cables, charts and accessories needed for a gig.

I'll second this. I have a MB 500 as my main and powers both a NEO 4x10 (4 ohm) and separately a NEO 1x50 (8 ohm). I A/B it against a Traynor 500 watt D class amp on the same 4x10 cab. No comparison. The GK won hands down in tone and volume. Yes the GK was more expensive but sonically, the hands down winner.

Back in the day I had a YBA100 with a matching 2x15 cab. No one wanted to help move these. I sold all the heavy stuff and have gone with lighter gear for the last 15 years and an my back never regretted it once.

Besides, the new stuff sounds just as good or better, IMHO.