I am wondering about transparent, I have a hartke hd500 which I would say is fairly transparent, would you concur or am I missing something?
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Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience
- Thread starter IvanMike
- Start date
Yeah, but it smells pretty awful... Stale beer and whiskey.... no thanks.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,034
- 5
- 220,935
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes, quite a few but not inexpensive and they tend to be deep. 2U is the sweet spot.
I have owned
GK MB500
MESA Walkabout
Current Traynor sb200
The Mesa was fantastic. I had recently had a back injury and could no longer tote my Mesa 400 around. When I had kids it was time to downsize $$. Sooo next..
I liked the GK in the store. Got it home and was disappointed. Never loved it. Never seemed to do what I wanted. Off it went.
In between - I finally got my childhood dream an sm400. It died a yr after owning it
- one month into the pandemic.
Enter the current
The Traynor is great. Super light. Great sound. Not a lot of fussing with nobs. Fan is dead silent. Is it my Boogie? No. But honestly not far off. And for the price difference. No brainer.
I was flirting with getting the Aguilar but with a price tag of $200 shipped and great reviews I decided to give the Traynor a try first.
Ive also played through the Trace elf? for a bit. Liked it but it has its own Trace flavor. I went home and started looking for a washburn status and wished I still had my kubicki. It was an era.
Im not a huge fan of the Mark stuff so... never tried those.
GK MB500
MESA Walkabout
Current Traynor sb200
The Mesa was fantastic. I had recently had a back injury and could no longer tote my Mesa 400 around. When I had kids it was time to downsize $$. Sooo next..
I liked the GK in the store. Got it home and was disappointed. Never loved it. Never seemed to do what I wanted. Off it went.
In between - I finally got my childhood dream an sm400. It died a yr after owning it
- one month into the pandemic.
Enter the current
The Traynor is great. Super light. Great sound. Not a lot of fussing with nobs. Fan is dead silent. Is it my Boogie? No. But honestly not far off. And for the price difference. No brainer.
I was flirting with getting the Aguilar but with a price tag of $200 shipped and great reviews I decided to give the Traynor a try first.
Ive also played through the Trace elf? for a bit. Liked it but it has its own Trace flavor. I went home and started looking for a washburn status and wished I still had my kubicki. It was an era.
Im not a huge fan of the Mark stuff so... never tried those.
I Am actually band-less at the moment. Those initials have me drawing a blank
I only have 1 NEO112 cab so, no. My SVT4 is paired with an Ampeg pro NEO 15 which produces a sound that really works for my ears. I have connected the GK to the 15" and it's good but not nearly as good. And I know this thread is about class D amps and I don't want to get too off topic but I will say that the GK NEO 112 is a great little cab. I use it with the SVT3 live all the time.
Ya' think?
New ones... bars often many more than they want. Most, if not all of the mats come from distributors for free, to get a product name out in front of servers and customers. When I've asked, nobody has ever handed me a wet one off the bar.
I believe the Peavey amps used their own modules IIRC. Some of the more “boutique” options use a different brand or different ICE module than the common one used in the majority of the “800” watt amps- I think the Bergantinos for example.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,034
- 5
- 220,935
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
GK uses standard ICEPower modules on everything I have seen.
Peavey uses their own proprietary module/design.
I'm not sure if anybody uses customized ICEPower modules) I don't know of any in spite of a few cryptic claims, and modifying the modules negates the safety approvals that the parts are designed to comply with.
Ah I don’t mean customized, just using different available modules (and I assume different surrounding design) than the common one(s) used in the majority of current bass amplifiers in the 800 watt range. Of course you are right about GK (edited)- I think I was just thinking of Peavey!
Epilogue:
i’d like to thank everybody who participated in this thread and hopefully it continues to grow. I ended up having a long behind the scenes conversation with Al Kraft which was also extremely helpful and we talked about several brands.
I was surprised to find out that there are very few Mesa dealers in Connecticut. I had to go to one about 40 minutes away and it turned out that a guy I knew owned the shop, which was very cool. It took a while for us to recognize each other behind the masks and behind years of weight gain and hair loss. Well, his hair loss, mine was gone a long time ago.
I got a chance to try the Trace Elf both through a mesa 15 & the trace 2 x 8. I plugged into the Mesa 2 x 10 for a second but tried to stick to one cabinet for the amp demos. In stock he had a mesa D 800 and a mesa WD 800. Both really good sounding amps. If he had a D 800+ it would have been a lot tougher to make a decision. I ended up going home with the WD 800. In the future I might have to ask him to order me a D 800+. The amps are definitely voiced a little bit differently and they are both really good flavors.
Despite everything I said about wanting something really small in the beginning, I found that in its little carry-on bag the Mesa is incredibly portable and I’m pretty sure I can walk in with my bass and that slung over my shoulder and carry a cabinet.
back at home I was able to do direct comparison in real time by plugging the mesa WD 800 into a Bag End 15 and Bag End 12 while I put my Demeter 201s into one channel of the QSC 1602 driving an identical stack of bag end speakers. (Everyone should have 4 cabinets).
I liked the Demeter tone a little bit better but I was able to get pretty close to it with the Mesa. The Demeter was a touch more open and kind of had a little bit more tube compression sort of. But its mids are voiced very differently. - Both sound really good. plugging the Mesa into all four cabinets and running it 2 ohm mode I found it to be every bit as loud as the QSC with both channels driven. It was also just as loud running against one channel of the QSC into to cabs in 4 ohm mode. I’m glad people clued me into the idea that the master and gain are linear because it was kind of counterintuitive not to be at maximum volume at around 12 o’clock and then run into clipping.
I’m still experimenting with the controls of the WD 800. It is really capable of a lot of different feels if you mess with the high pass filter, the adjustable dampening factor, the gain, and the passive mids. Combining those with the bass and treble shelving controls and the semi parametric 3 band mid range (total range 80-5k with considerable overlap between controls) allows you to do a lot with smaller adjustments on the active EQ section than you might normally be used to.
Like I said, I really was torn between the tone of the WD 800 and the D800. In many ways they are very similar but the WD definitely seems more complex & aggressive while the D 800 sounds a little bit more polite. The shape or whatever they call the global tone control/Instant smiley face eq knob only found on the 800 and 800+ is actually a really good one. The deep switch sounded a little boomy but not awful, and it certainly did exactly what it should. The 800 doesn’t have a bright switch but the 800+ does. However, I think the reason I would want an 800+ would be for the high pass filter. That’s actually really useful just from a tonal perspective alone and messing with that and the bass control knob is a lot of fun. I can see how it would interact very well with the deep switch as well. Even without those two extra amenities (and a couple of back panel extras) the D 800 was a very impressive little amplifier. If that’s what was available to try I certainly would have gone home with it.
The Trace elf was exactly how people describe it. Not exactly fantastic tone, but not terrible. Definitely would not have a problem being heard playing that head. It’s a little dirty and a little heavy on the mids but it is like a baseball bat hitting you in the skull. It’s also surprisingly loud. The store owner and I kind of joked about the fact that I could fit into the side pocket of the gig bag for the Mesa where you normally store the cord. It seems like an excellent little thing to have as an emergency back up amplifier. I may have to get one just because it is so darned impressive.
Now I’m really just faced with a problem. What do I do with my heavier gear? I did mess around with the auxiliary input on the Mesa and compared it with the effects return on the Mesa and they seem to enter the circuit at about the same point, post EQ, pre master gain and I think pre-damping factor control. At least that’s how it sounds. As such, I was able to plug my Avalon straight into the power amp which worked wonderfully. I can see myself Jonesing for the demeter tone and just throwing that & my super filter into a little two space rack bag and using the Mesa as a power amplifier. I don’t suppose they make one space rack bags? Hah.
there was a really funny moment yesterday when I threw the lids on my rack which is a four space calzone, (Joe Calzone by the way is an excellent drummer although he hits really hard. I have had the pleasure of playing with him a few times.). I brought that 45 pound rack downstairs, came back upstairs and picked up the little 6 pound or so head sitting on top of my cabinets. I plugged one of my basses in and was much more confident that I had done the right thing.
i’d like to thank everybody who participated in this thread and hopefully it continues to grow. I ended up having a long behind the scenes conversation with Al Kraft which was also extremely helpful and we talked about several brands.
I was surprised to find out that there are very few Mesa dealers in Connecticut. I had to go to one about 40 minutes away and it turned out that a guy I knew owned the shop, which was very cool. It took a while for us to recognize each other behind the masks and behind years of weight gain and hair loss. Well, his hair loss, mine was gone a long time ago.
I got a chance to try the Trace Elf both through a mesa 15 & the trace 2 x 8. I plugged into the Mesa 2 x 10 for a second but tried to stick to one cabinet for the amp demos. In stock he had a mesa D 800 and a mesa WD 800. Both really good sounding amps. If he had a D 800+ it would have been a lot tougher to make a decision. I ended up going home with the WD 800. In the future I might have to ask him to order me a D 800+. The amps are definitely voiced a little bit differently and they are both really good flavors.
Despite everything I said about wanting something really small in the beginning, I found that in its little carry-on bag the Mesa is incredibly portable and I’m pretty sure I can walk in with my bass and that slung over my shoulder and carry a cabinet.
back at home I was able to do direct comparison in real time by plugging the mesa WD 800 into a Bag End 15 and Bag End 12 while I put my Demeter 201s into one channel of the QSC 1602 driving an identical stack of bag end speakers. (Everyone should have 4 cabinets).
I liked the Demeter tone a little bit better but I was able to get pretty close to it with the Mesa. The Demeter was a touch more open and kind of had a little bit more tube compression sort of. But its mids are voiced very differently. - Both sound really good. plugging the Mesa into all four cabinets and running it 2 ohm mode I found it to be every bit as loud as the QSC with both channels driven. It was also just as loud running against one channel of the QSC into to cabs in 4 ohm mode. I’m glad people clued me into the idea that the master and gain are linear because it was kind of counterintuitive not to be at maximum volume at around 12 o’clock and then run into clipping.
I’m still experimenting with the controls of the WD 800. It is really capable of a lot of different feels if you mess with the high pass filter, the adjustable dampening factor, the gain, and the passive mids. Combining those with the bass and treble shelving controls and the semi parametric 3 band mid range (total range 80-5k with considerable overlap between controls) allows you to do a lot with smaller adjustments on the active EQ section than you might normally be used to.
Like I said, I really was torn between the tone of the WD 800 and the D800. In many ways they are very similar but the WD definitely seems more complex & aggressive while the D 800 sounds a little bit more polite. The shape or whatever they call the global tone control/Instant smiley face eq knob only found on the 800 and 800+ is actually a really good one. The deep switch sounded a little boomy but not awful, and it certainly did exactly what it should. The 800 doesn’t have a bright switch but the 800+ does. However, I think the reason I would want an 800+ would be for the high pass filter. That’s actually really useful just from a tonal perspective alone and messing with that and the bass control knob is a lot of fun. I can see how it would interact very well with the deep switch as well. Even without those two extra amenities (and a couple of back panel extras) the D 800 was a very impressive little amplifier. If that’s what was available to try I certainly would have gone home with it.
The Trace elf was exactly how people describe it. Not exactly fantastic tone, but not terrible. Definitely would not have a problem being heard playing that head. It’s a little dirty and a little heavy on the mids but it is like a baseball bat hitting you in the skull. It’s also surprisingly loud. The store owner and I kind of joked about the fact that I could fit into the side pocket of the gig bag for the Mesa where you normally store the cord. It seems like an excellent little thing to have as an emergency back up amplifier. I may have to get one just because it is so darned impressive.
Now I’m really just faced with a problem. What do I do with my heavier gear? I did mess around with the auxiliary input on the Mesa and compared it with the effects return on the Mesa and they seem to enter the circuit at about the same point, post EQ, pre master gain and I think pre-damping factor control. At least that’s how it sounds. As such, I was able to plug my Avalon straight into the power amp which worked wonderfully. I can see myself Jonesing for the demeter tone and just throwing that & my super filter into a little two space rack bag and using the Mesa as a power amplifier. I don’t suppose they make one space rack bags? Hah.
there was a really funny moment yesterday when I threw the lids on my rack which is a four space calzone, (Joe Calzone by the way is an excellent drummer although he hits really hard. I have had the pleasure of playing with him a few times.). I brought that 45 pound rack downstairs, came back upstairs and picked up the little 6 pound or so head sitting on top of my cabinets. I plugged one of my basses in and was much more confident that I had done the right thing.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,034
- 5
- 220,935
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The deep switch is a more effective tool when used outdoors (with adequate speakers), or in conjunction with the variable HPF. You might experiment with this, Al has a lot of experience with the amp and especially the voicing capabilities with the deep filter combined with the HPF.
Right on. Those deep switches do tend to shine in situations like that. I pretty much did all my comparison through the Mesa subway 15 which was a very nice cabinet.
I know people would be surprised if they knew where the two made controls on the D800 are set, but I have enough experience to know that those are two very useful areas. They certainly sounded good.
i’d be curious to know if you have any kind of demographic information in terms of what sort of players have preferred the 800/800+, the WD 800, and TT 800? Two players of different genres tend to gravitate towards different amps? Or is it all over the map? I didn’t get a chance to try the TT800, but while the D800 and a WD 800 have a similar sound, there is enough voicing difference to make them both very attractive options. I could see myself picking one over the other depending upon the gig.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,034
- 5
- 220,935
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
It really depends so much on the individual player's tastes as well as the application (music type, instrument and playing style). There is quite a difference between the D-800/800+ and the WD, you should try to get some time with both to see what you might prefer and when you might choose one over the other.
