Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience

[agedhorse]

Coming back a week later? Your ears will be completely different by then. Even 10 minutes your ears will be different. Also, confirmation bias is a very real thing.

I have done more testing that most on this subject, it's comfortably filed under the urban myth and old wive's tales category IMO and IME. Utter (or udder for a BS analogy) hogwash, but it maked for a good story and a good marketing line if you listen to the audio-fool hi-fi world (I shared a story here a while back about showing an entire room of cork sniffers that the emperor had no clothes, the company and many of those involved were perpetuating fraud and the gullible felt obligated by peer pressure to hear the difference where there was guaranteed to be absolutely none. That was my last day working in that industry, voluntarily on my part because I had quit, but involuntary on the part of the snake oil side of the industry because they fired my after I quit.

I have posted before that if you don't personally like something (for whatever reason) don't buy it, but don't promote factless, baseless, urban myth claims that are simply not true unless you can prove it with measurements and science. Faith and belief don't cut it here.

 

[swarfrat]

In the event of a break-in, your class D amps are much more likely to go missing than the 400+. (Most thieves are looking for easy to carry)

 

[agedhorse]

Now tube amps can age a bit in the frst 100 hours or so as the tubes boil off and absorb minor impurities, this is measurable (and also an indicator of fabrication issues if there is much change and if the changes do not decelerate). Of course the mechanism for the changes are very, very different between a class D amp and a tube amp. The science and measurements also back up the changes.

 

[J_WELF]

Bringing science to a gun fight....lol

so let me ask you this as a novice my Orange Terror Bass and Walkabout Scout have tube preamps when they warm up there I feel like there is an appreciable change. True/False science only. I feel like there some sound differences

thanks for all the insight BTW

Now tube amps can age a bit in the frst 100 hours or so as the tubes boil off and absorb minor impurities, this is measurable (and also an indicator of fabrication issues if there is much change and if the changes do not decelerate). Of course the mechanism for the changes are very, very different between a class D amp and a tube amp. The science and measurements also back up the changes.

 

[Drummerboy2]

Coming back a week later? Your ears will be completely different by then. Even 10 minutes your ears will be different. Also, confirmation bias is a very real thing.

I agree, the ears will reset. But if it was just me hearing things and BS, then it should still be bright. Correct?

 

[Drummerboy2]

I have done more testing that most on this subject, it's comfortably filed under the urban myth and old wive's tales category IMO and IME. Utter (or udder for a BS analogy) hogwash, but it maked for a good story and a good marketing line if you listen to the audio-fool hi-fi world (I shared a story here a while back about showing an entire room of cork sniffers that the emperor had no clothes, the company and many of those involved were perpetuating fraud and the gullible felt obligated by peer pressure to hear the difference where there was guaranteed to be absolutely none. That was my last day working in that industry, voluntarily on my part because I had quit, but involuntary on the part of the snake oil side of the industry because they fired my after I quit.

So you are saying what I heard is BS? I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or sell anything, I was just reporting what me and another person experienced.

 

[agedhorse]

Bringing science to a gun fight....lol

so let me ask you this as a novice my Orange Terror Bass and Walkabout Scout have tube preamps when they warm up there I feel like there is an appreciable change. True/False science only. I feel like there some sound differences

thanks for all the insight BTW

As a tube warms up, emissions will increase, slightly overshoot then stabilize at the circuit’s quiescent current. While this process is happening there will be measurable changes. The process takes between 5 minutes to (maybe) as long as 30 minutes. There are also other more minor thermal events happing during the same time.

 

[agedhorse]

So you are saying what I heard is BS? I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or sell anything, I was just reporting what me and another person experienced.

Unless you do AB double blind testing, it may be something unrelated or even imaginary.

This is why it’s important for designers to analyze data and confirm that what appears to be happening is really what’s going on. It’s VERY easy to be fooled, even experts can be fooled.

What you thought you heard isn’t BS, attributing it to a particular class D amp without actual confirmation testing is what’s unrealistic.

 

[Drummerboy2]

What you thought you heard isn’t BS, attributing it to a particular class D amp without actual confirmation testing is what’s unrealistic.

This Happen also on the XLS2502 I bought after the XLS 2502. I agree with the AB Blinded Test but I wasn't doing an experiment to prove something as a fact and pass it on as an expert. I was just reporting something that stood out so much it really grabbed my attention. So when a person was so upset that his amp didn't sound like he thought it would. I just suggested he let it run with music playing for over 100 hrs. before sending it back. What harm is there in that? He is now very happy with it and is glad he did that. Now remember, this was just with the Crown XLS Drivecore amps I experienced this with.

 

[nilebodgers]

So from what I'm reading here, most of the smaller Class D amps are using the ICE Power Modules from B&O? The only difference between those are just the front ends/preamp portion of the amps are different? These are popular with the High End Home Audio amps along with Hypex. The Crowns have developed their own Drivecore version which I like a lot.

Also the class D amps I have seen schematics for wrap a limiter that senses the output around the ICE module and the designs of the limiters are not at all similar between manufacturers.

Based on that I’d expect all the amps to sound a bit different when thrashed even if the differences in preamp design were ignored.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

I agree, the ears will reset. But if it was just me hearing things and BS, then it should still be bright. Correct?

I hated the sound out of my and other people's I phones (the sound with nothing plugged in) and could not understand how people would just listen without an external speaker involved.

After two weeks of using my own I phone and "tolerating" its natural sound it now is an ok sound.
The phone did not change, no break in, just got use to it.

Got a small external speaker for watching videos on the laptop. It was better than the laptops but still not good.
Now it is great for what it does. Not break in just use to it.

We just get more tolerant of sound eventually, like the bad smell that eventually goes away from our sensors but it is clearly still in the room. This also happens with our ears.

 

[agedhorse]

This Happen also on the XLS2502 I bought after the XLS 2502. I agree with the AB Blinded Test but I wasn't doing an experiment to prove something as a fact and pass it on as an expert. I was just reporting something that stood out so much it really grabbed my attention. So when a person was so upset that his amp didn't sound like he thought it would. I just suggested he let it run with music playing for over 100 hrs. before sending it back. What harm is there in that? He is now very happy with it and is glad he did that. Now remember, this was just with the Crown XLS Drivecore amps I experienced this with.

There's no harm to it, but I don't want to suggest that something with the amp will change when I have a good basis for knowing it won't. That would be disingenuous, and promote the urban mythology that I stand against.

 

[swarfrat]

I have thought about drawing up a schematic for an all tube class D amp. Pointless except to get a rise out of folks. (Unless you want to run a radio station I guess). But I see someone beat me to it.

Dang smileys won't come through

Laney 2 X 500 Watt All Tube Class D Bass Amplifier Head (nexus-sl) for sale online | eBay

 

[Drummerboy2]

There's no harm to it, but I don't want to suggest that something with the amp will change when I have a good basis for knowing it won't. That would be disingenuous, and promote the urban mythology that I stand against.

That's Fine, we don't have to agree on this. But I will stand behind what I heard in MY system, and that is what I was talking about anyways. I even said I never heard this in the Class D Bass amps.

 

[Drummerboy2]

I have thought about drawing up a schematic for an all tube class D amp. Pointless except to get a rise out of folks. (Unless you want to run a radio station I guess). But I see someone beat me to it.

Dang smileys won't come through

Laney 2 X 500 Watt All Tube Class D Bass Amplifier Head (nexus-sl) for sale online | eBay

Is that a Hybrid amp? It doesn't list what type of tube/s it uses.

 

[Drummerboy2]

I have thought about drawing up a schematic for an all tube class D amp. Pointless except to get a rise out of folks. (Unless you want to run a radio station I guess). But I see someone beat me to it.

Dang smileys won't come through

Laney 2 X 500 Watt All Tube Class D Bass Amplifier Head (nexus-sl) for sale online | eBay

Here's what I found.

Class D Tube Hybrid
The NEXUS-SL’s power amplifier section combines the power and portability of cutting-edge Class D technology with the natural warmth, compression and dynamic range that only a tube can give: A high voltage ECC83 tube sits between the preamplifier and the 1000W RMS power section. A pioneering design solution to give the very best of both worlds.

 

[swarfrat]

The listing is erroneous. It's a tube preamp and a class D solid state power amp.

 

[ShadowGroover]

Coming back a week later? Your ears will be completely different by then. Even 10 minutes your ears will be different.

The story of my life. Best tone forever yesterday sounds blasé today. Same room and gear. Only thing different? My perception.

Ever wonder why it takes years for some artists to mix or master their recordings? Welcome to the rabbit hole.

 

[jnewmark]

The story of my life. Best tone forever yesterday sounds blasé today. Same room and gear. Only thing different? My perception.

Ever wonder why it takes years for some artists to mix or master their recordings? Welcome to the rabbit hole.

My ears at the beginning of the gig are not the same at the end.

 

[Guitalia]

So you are saying what I heard is BS? I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or sell anything, I was just reporting what me and another person experienced.

My guess: if you're like most people (including me), you didn't ask, "Does the music sound different to you than it did before? If so, how?" You likely asked, "That doesn't sound as bright as it did before, right?" I'd probably have agreed with you, too, regardless of what I thought I heard. What's the harm?