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Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience

#281
Eddie LeBlanc said:
One big question, "Have you tried a Berg?"
Just saying Bergantino has got that reputation as being one of the best on the market. Just a shame that more people don't have an opportunity to try one for themselves.
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I haven’t had the opportunity to try one. There really are none around me. I was always impressed with Jim’s cabinets since he started putting them out.
 
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#282
IvanMike said:
I haven’t had the opportunity to try one. There really are none around me. I was always impressed with Jim’s cabinets since he started putting them out.
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Yep I just went ahead and took the plunge on a B|Amp. Personally it's the best amp I've ever played. Just hard to find one to play on. B|Amp can look complicated at 1st, but really a class amp and super versatile.

The Forte HP is a more common design and is getting some real great reviews also. Personally I'm still waiting on Jim to do a HP B|Amp. So keeping my fingers crossed.
 
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#283
IvanMike said:
Well take everything I say with a grain of salt because literally this is based upon a day or less of playing in my living room no band no gig.

I have the WD 800 and the D 800+ plugged into identical side-by-side stacks. So I’m able to do pretty quick comparisons. I also ran the tuner out of one amp into the input of the other amp and they sound really good together driving that stereo rig but I know there is a small effect upon tone of the second amp when you do this so I did my comparisons straight into the input jack of each.

The WD is very responsive to the instrument. That is, it sounded quite different with my Valenti 5 than it did with my Tobias 4. Despite the WD having what I consider more of a signature sound, the character of the instrument seems to shine through. The Valenti has a pretty aggressive top and it’s not shy in the lows but it likes them to be bumped a bit. My 1986 Tobias is a low end monster. It has a different voicing in the top end.

When I play the Valenti and compare the amplifiers the WD definitely sounds brighter. Even with a bright switch engaged on the plus. When I play the Tobias, the WD sounds darker than the plus as long as the plus has the bright switch engaged.

You can mess around with a tone controls on each amplifier to make them sound pretty similar in any given situation but it’s only ballpark. You can definitely hear the different voice of each amp even when they’re set to where your ears they sound pretty similar. This often requires different settings on each amplifier. ~ To be honest, I ran into the phenomenon of every time I switched amplifiers I decided that the one I just plugged into sounded better! This was with identical volume set by ear not by eye. Although the middle damping setting is my favorite on the WD, I tried to do most of my comparison with it set to high to mimic the hardwired damping in the plus.

The voicing control on the plus is a lot more musical and a lot more subtle than similar controls. I am accustomed to the dramatic enhance knob on the Eden amp or the Aural enhancer on the SWR. The voicing on the plus is really usable throughout its entire range. It depends upon the bass What kind of effect this ends up adding. With the Valenti it had the instant effect of sounding great but also made the amp sound quieter than the WD. Have no fear, I could turn it up and shake the house and it got every bit as loud as it normally does. But I was taking out some of the mid range that helped that bass cut through. With the Tobias it seemed to have no appreciable affect upon the perceived volume of the amplifier.

The deep switch on the plus is very useful depending upon the bass guitar. It was a bit too much with the Tobias, and that was the bass that I originally tried the D 800 with in the store where I mentioned that the deep switch was a bit boomy. With the Valenti the deep switch sounds magnificent. It’s one of those things where you cannot replicate it with the bass control. Speaking of, the bright switch is one of those things that you cannot replicate with the treble control. I tried. It sounded fantastic with both basses. Even though the Valenti is aggressive up top The bright switch emphasizes a different range which just makes it sparkle without being unpleasant, while it really made the Tobias sound fantastic. I should mention that it is time to change the strings on the Tobias. Well... probably overdue. The bright switch really makes the plus a different amplifier than the D 800. Of course the semi parametric mid range and bypass filter are also great features over the original 800 but if I had to choose just one feature it would be the bright switch. It would be neat to see deep and bright switches on the WD, but they are not deal breakers. While you can’t get quite the same “bright” vibe with the tone controls and passive mid on the WD, the amplifier has more than enough presence. It’s also got more than enough low end when needed.

What can the 800+ do that the WD can’t? It sounds like the 800+. Mic drop.

The plus is not exactly a thick sounding amplifier (smooth is a better descriptor) but the WD sounds a lot more complex and open. They both sound really refined. It’s literally like different flavors. The 800+ Sounds like butter, the WD has this raw thing going on. I would not hesitate to bring either one on any gig. I am suitably impressed.

TT is on 4-6 week back order.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)
This is what I was looking for!
Your description makes sense to me.
Between this and Iv@N's side by side video, I get it!
Thanks again!
tenor (18).gif
 
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#284
Al Kraft said:
IME using common components or modules doesn't mean there is no difference in design implementation...and subsequently unit performance. Many common core type elements/components have a basic functionality that at a first order look is easily understood by its specs. However, these components can easily offer additional capability when integrated into an overall circuit by someone who is very familiar with the component's design.

If we step outside of class D for a moment and just think about class AB (tube or SS), most amplifiers have a high degree of common components (many may be identical) but are voiced and perform very differently. The trick here is to appreciate the total design of the circuitry as a system and not overly focus on one component/module/sub-assembly. While the preamp matters a lot IMO, what can be done with a common power module may differ with with degree of deeper understanding of that module's inherent and latent capabilities.
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Exactly. Overall architecture counts. On the other hand, Fender AB763 amps have a very similar architecture and differ in small details only.
 
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#290
pepj said:
I dont think Bergantino have a history of amps but like most of their product I've played, they make a good fist. The Forte HP is indeed a good amp, imo.
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They started with speakers then somewhere along the line came out with amps. Is the Forte HP good right out of the box? I'm looking for plug and play! Not into distortion, fuzz bass or loading new software etc! I do like that the HP is rackable and has 1200 watts.
 
#294
Paullee01 said:
They started with speakers then somewhere along the line came out with amps. Is the Forte HP good right out of the box? I'm looking for plug and play! Not into distortion, fuzz bass or loading new software etc! I do like that the HP is rackable and has 1200 watts.
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Yep, amps are recent. Not a huge fan of their Cabs, although my experience dates back to AE and CN.

But the Forte HP is good out of the box with high spec and Berg quality.
It might be over spec'd with some Drive and Comp elements but I do like the 2 filters.
I'm liking its eq simplicity, but I tend use amps in quite a neutral way so haven't even looked at Sim options or the bluetooth pedal.
The only thing I'd prefer is switches rather than colour coded button options.

Soundwise, it works great with all my cabs and the 2ohm option at high power is why i got it.
 
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#295
From the very first post:
IvanMike said:
Tone itself is of course subjective. However I would be interested in your thoughts here as well, especially if you have had the opportunity to do direct comparisons.
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Sorry, but that is not quite right! "Tone" is objective, and by measuring, we can quantify the relevant metrics and unique characteristics, when applicable. It is frequency response, compression, distortion, bandwith and so on. The perceivable differences between amps can be measured, and if all else fails, you measure the total amp + cab result in the room, and compare those results. And there are differences, smaller or larger.
What you then PREFER is subjective, but for my personal preferences of a neutral power amp stage, I have not been able to hear any difference between QSC PLX 3602, QSC RMX 5050, and UREI JBL 6290. My Markbass LMII and LM Ninja 1000 have higher noise floor and more distortion, especially in the higher frequencies.
EBS Reidmar 750 has yet higher noise floor than the Markbass amps, and the built in HPF audibly crops some low end, very audibly so for a five string player. These properties are displayed both in the pre out, and to the speaker, ie not only power amp stage characteristics.
 
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#296
Tone, and it’s perception is very much subjective to a player. Each player perceives tone differently, which is the basis for 2 different players perceiving the same amp or cabinet differently.

The measurements, the specifications are objective however since there are no perceptions involved.
 
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#297
agedhorse said:
Tone, and it’s perception is very much subjective to a player. Each player perceives tone differently, which is the basis for 2 different players perceiving the same amp or cabinet differently.

The measurements, the specifications are objective however since there are no perceptions involved.
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Assuming they’re honest ;)
 
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#300
esoxhntr said:
Ampeg - I have tried so hard to like Ampeg... 2 types of B-15, SVT, V4B... It's just not for me. So, I wasn't surprised when I plugged in a PF350 and was completely underwhelmed. I hear folks raving about Ampeg stuff all the time. I don't get it.
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So I'm looking for a head for my newly acquired 2x svt210av cabs. I went to my local GC looking for heads, did not bring my cabs. Found just one head - Ampeg PF500. Plugged it into an aggie sl210 cab. Let me tell you it was the first time I've been inspired by the colors from a bass amp. Every knob you turned did something good. That 5 way mid EQ selector is pure magic, as is the gain and compression knobs. My other bass amp experiences (Traynor SB112 and AcousticImage) have been "clinical" by comparison. These latter amp's EQ's doing what you'd expect, but the overall amp experience lacks magic and not inspiring artistry. Does that make sense? Based on that, would the PF500 be a magical choice for my 210AV cabs? I realize the sl210 is a great cab, but I have the 210AV's.
 
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