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Seeking your real world class D amp head comparison and experience

Well this is a lot of good information. I really appreciate the responses.

I suppose I should make a different thread but that seems kind of silly. But anyhow the title would be “which of the really miniature ones stands out?”

That is things along the size of an elf or something that’s not terribly bigger than that. Once again, like I said in the beginning, some thing that would fit in a gig bag . It seems there are quite a few really good amps that are getting closer and closer to the size of an Eden traveler. I do miss my WT 400 but it was also Bigger than what I want to carry around for something like this. In that case it’s not the weight, it’s the physical size. The outside dimensions. You aren’t going to shove that in the side pocket of a gig bag. You’re definitely not going to shove some of the bigger class D amps mentioned here in one either.

I probably threw a lot of people off by mentioning the SWR. It’s simply the smallest amp that I have that I usually take to little practices or what have you. My regular rig is a Demeter 201S and Alembic SF2 going through a QSC 1602 power amp. It’s great but 4 rack spaces and it’s got to be in the 40 something pound range. I don’t mind carrying it. That’s one of the reasons I go to the gym. But I don’t want to bring it everywhere.

I am kind of laughing at myself because for a small/medium size gig I would have no problem bringing a little tiny D class head and my Avalon to get the tone I wanted even though that U5 would be much bigger than the amplifier.
I’ve been through a few amps through the years. Been there, done that with various old school tube amps back in the day. My fave in that department has been the SVT, mainly because I adore it’s clean tones. But, I confess to only using them and never lugging one around. I also was beholden to the Acoustic 360 (I know; not tube) for quite a few years. At some point, I ended up with first the Alembic F1-X, then a Demeter VTBP-201 into the QSC-1602.

Then, there was a string of A/B amps, including the Eden VT .25, which notably had a Demeter preamp.

My first Class D was a Walter Woods MI 200-8 Green Light. I sold that when a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 produced nearly the same performance. A GB Shuttle 9.0 replaced the 6.0; and that amp absolutely slammed. Did many gigs with that one. Also picked up and still own a Shuttle 12.0.

The Shuttles were great; but, the preamp tube operated such that you couldn’t hear much difference between different preamp tube types. Unlike your Demeter preamp.

Meanwhile, like you, I remained devoted to Demeter preamps into various power amps, like the QSC PLX1602, for bigger gigs.

We all have distinctly different amp preferences, depending on the instruments and styles we each pursue. I long ago developed a strong disdain for power amp tube distortion, preferring to go for hammer on granite clean slam. So, the current efforts at making Class D amps emulate power tube distortion hold zero interest for me. I do like the 3D shimmer that preamp tubes produce. I have no use at all for that driving early Jefferson Airplane power tube distortion, which is popular ATM. Each to their own; different strokes, etc.

I just did an audition with the Demeter Bass 400D. It is tiny and more than adequate for many sessions and gigs. I’ve also got Andy’s Mesa TT-800; which is simply outstanding. I’ve also got the Demeter Minnie 800D; which surprisingly keeps right up with the much larger QSC 800 W/ch rack amps. That’s another nice alternative. I also have a VTBP-201, in which James put an ICEPower 250ASX2 module.

I did gig the Berg B|Amp for quite a while. It was excellent; but, I missed the tube.

I guess I need psychiatric help.

Anyhow, there are a huge array of practical, toneful, and useful Class D boxes. You can stay in the Demeter universe or try other boxes. Andy’s Subway amps are absolutely outstanding. I THINK that if you like the Demeter voicing, you may like the TT-800. But, it does have more knobs. Also wider tonal availability.

GL, and enjoy the search!!
 
AFAIC those extra-tiny heads might be a little too small & light for my liking. I have never so much as noticed the weight of my LMII or Quilter in a padded laptop shoulder bag and I have never once ever had to make an extra trip on their account.
YMMV but I'll take that extra bit of room to get my fingers around the knobs and an extra pound or so to keep the amp from vibrating off the cab.
 
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To my knowledge, all but the Quilter Bass Block use the ICE. Pat made his own, cuz ...well, that's what he loves to do!

Hypex and Pascal modules have also gotten some bass use, and some attention on TB. Trickfish uses both ICE (.5) and Pascal (1.0); I believe the amps made by "Jule" use Hypex. Not sure what's used in the DNA 1350 amps...forgot to mention earlier that I had one, and liked it quite a bit - on the warm fat side, and very effective with two 8-ohm cabinets, especially power-sucking units like the Greenboy fearless...but too much power for the single 4-ohm 1-15 that I've been favoring, and while the compressor circuit seems quite good, it's not something I generally use.
 
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Re the OP, power ratings from most of the major players in this space are reasonably accurate. Many of 'em have been bench tested by Bass Gear Mag and clearly shown to be so. There are notable exceptions/ laggards (TC Electronics comes to mind), but the current batch of 500 and 800 watters by Mesa, GK, Genz, Peavey, Aguilar etc are "real". IMHO, having luxuriantly excessive power on tap is a good thing, as is the recently much more accessible accessory of an adjustable HPF.
 
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Euphonic Audio's Doubler (and v2) has notch filtering and variable phase on channel 2. It doesn't have a strict HPF. After literally playing hundreds, if not thousands of gigs- I feel the HPF is way over-rated. I have invariably sought more depth and low end than trying to get rid of it. That's both upright bass and slab...the EA Doubler is squeaky clean in its power and can really show off your slab's sonic signature. For upright, using a Lifeline pickup at reasonable (with drummer) volume- it can sound like my bass, but I like to play loud so it becomes a harmonic rich big ass "bass guitar". I guess my answer to HPF is turn the cabinet backwards or fire it into the floor (with a gap, of course). These are effective in getting a few more dB out of a microphone (Ear Trumpet Nadine). Right now at my studio, I have an old Peavey 2-15, a Headliner 410 and the EA NL210 driven by the Doubler at 2 ohms. I did it because I can, but I only really use the NL210 when I rehearse with the band. Last week, the mando player asked "is that the bass or plugged in?" (that's a victory).
 
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Euphonic Audio's Doubler (and v2) has notch filtering and variable phase on channel 2. It doesn't have a strict HPF. After literally playing hundreds, if not thousands of gigs- I feel the HPF is way over-rated. I have invariably sought more depth and low end than trying to get rid of it. That's both upright bass and slab...the EA Doubler is squeaky clean in its power and can really show off your slab's sonic signature. For upright, using a Lifeline pickup at reasonable (with drummer) volume- it can sound like my bass, but I like to play loud so it becomes a harmonic rich big ass "bass guitar". I guess my answer to HPF is turn the cabinet backwards or fire it into the floor (with a gap, of course). These are effective in getting a few more dB out of a microphone (Ear Trumpet Nadine). Right now at my studio, I have an old Peavey 2-15, a Headliner 410 and the EA NL210 driven by the Doubler at 2 ohms. I did it because I can, but I only really use the NL210 when I rehearse with the band. Last week, the mando player asked "is that the bass or plugged in?" (that's a victory).
A notch filter has nothing to do with a HPF, strictly, not strictly or otherwise.
 
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I subbed because I’m on a bit of a class D journey myself. I’ve been through many of the usual suspects: Aguilar TH500, Ampeg PF500/800, GK MB500/MBF800, Kustom KXB500, Carvin B2000 (I *think* it was class D), Fender Rumble 500 Combo, and most recently, Quilter BB800.

The unfortunate truth is that even though I’ve owned these heads, for most of those years I was using cabs that didn’t do the best job of showcasing what the amps were capable of. I spent many years underestimating the importance of a quality cab and wrongly assumed that a cheap “good enough” cab could work. In some cases it can, but in many cases it didn’t. Not to mention the basses I was cycling through in that time.

With all that being said, once I got some proper cabs (Genzler bass array 12’s) I was able to really get the full experience of the Quilter, which is the only head I’ve had since getting nice cabs. It was definitely loud enough and had plenty of headroom with decent tone, but unfortunately the higher noise floor, lack of control, and unorthodox DI made me sell it recently.

My next stop is to try out some of these Mesa heads everyone loves, as well as Bergantino and maybe Trickfish. I’d also love to play some Aguilar stuff again now that I have a better understanding of how their drive and gain section functions.

All of this to say, Class D heads have come a long way and the heads available today are literally the best bass amps ever made. Many other people have said this, but we’re definitely in the golden era of bass gear. IMO of course.
 
Class D amps I've had:
GB Shuttlemax 9.2 - It was OK but too many knobs made it distracting and I could never get slam and clear; could have been me as others like these
TH500 - This amp was murky to me but I now realize I didn't give it a fair test as I wasn't aware how interactive the controls were
7 Pro- I own or have owned a lot of Ampegs. This one was also a little murky and didn't sound that much like an Ampeg to me. Again, loved by many
GK MBF800 - Nice amp, very clear but could never get a warm round tone

The lack of slam, punch, etc. is often said to be lacking from Class D and I believed this for awhile.
All I can say is that an Ampeg tube pre through the effects loop if the GK sounds incredible and as good as any Class AB amp I've used with it. Two rack space and about 15 lbs. in a rack bag. Not an SVT but my current go to rig.

My take away is that some amps have pre-amps / baked in voicing that players don't like (or love). Other than a tube power amp, I don't think there is much difference between Class AB and Class D when done right.
I had to check that my LMII was not a class D as I didn't care for that one either!
Very happy with older Ampegs, SWR, and Ashdown.
Have not had the chance to try a Mesa as yet. There are 4 shops within 60 miles and they all currently have the WD800.
 
Also a great amp, as were the 750 and 1200. I owned them all at one time or another. But my favourite for pure tone was the GBE400.

GBE-400 was the one with only an FET preamp... so much for tubes???
 
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Euphonic Audio's Doubler (and v2) has notch filtering and variable phase on channel 2. It doesn't have a strict HPF. After literally playing hundreds, if not thousands of gigs- I feel the HPF is way over-rated. I have invariably sought more depth and low end than trying to get rid of it. That's both upright bass and slab...the EA Doubler is squeaky clean in its power and can really show off your slab's sonic signature. For upright, using a Lifeline pickup at reasonable (with drummer) volume- it can sound like my bass, but I like to play loud so it becomes a harmonic rich big ass "bass guitar". I guess my answer to HPF is turn the cabinet backwards or fire it into the floor (with a gap, of course). These are effective in getting a few more dB out of a microphone (Ear Trumpet Nadine). Right now at my studio, I have an old Peavey 2-15, a Headliner 410 and the EA NL210 driven by the Doubler at 2 ohms. I did it because I can, but I only really use the NL210 when I rehearse with the band. Last week, the mando player asked "is that the bass or plugged in?" (that's a victory).
Doubler does have adjustable HPF. Both the original and II.
 
Amps that fit in a bass gigbag. Hmm.

My iGig bag has large, deep pockets. I could probably fit a Little Mark 2 in there (though I wouldn't want to carry one that way) or a Quilter Bass Block (which would be fine, despite its chunkily compact profile). My Mono Vertigo (where my main bass lives), with its slim-profile pocket and angled zipper, would accommodate neither. It might accommodate a Markbass F-500 or an Eich T-900 (and I might've taken the Eich in it once or twice), but that'd be pushing it. My older Mono M-80 gigbag (with its slightly more sensible and accommodating pockets) did take the F500 a few times, Guess it depends on the gigbag.

If I'm taking a small amp (and, like you, @IvanMike, I often take a larger setup), I usually use a padded laptop bag for it, cables, etc. Still, reasonably gig-baggable amps I've played:
  • Markbass F500: Smooth, clear, and even, semi-parametric EQ (tiny knobs a bit finicky, though), good for louder (but not super-loud) gigs through a relatively efficient 4 Ohm cab but ran out of headroom at 8 Ohms. Nice (for my taste, even response, little baked-in EQ curve or compression, with some harmonic texture) through a cab that "roughs up" the sound a bit (bit of paper-cone distortion in the upper mids and treble) but sterile, to my ear, through a very hi-fi/smooth cab. Bass response good but not super-deep. Discontinued, so you're looking at used examples.
  • Eich T-900: Sounds like a more open, crisper, slightly more aggressively voiced Tecamp Puma (same designer). Form-factor is nearly identical to that of the Markbass F500 (very slim) with oodles more power -- played 4 and 8 Ohms setups with it in a loud club and never felt I was running out of power. Sound is more lively, detailed, "textured" than that of the F500. Knobs-at-noon didn't strike me as flat response (F500 felt closer to that), but not terribly far off. "Taste" control works similarly to the "Timbre" knob on a Thunderfunk (both strike me as "tilt EQs"). Unlike the F500, the deep lows on the Eich are very open -- not old SWR, wiggle-a-string-and-watch-the-cones-move open, but open enough to eat up some cab-headroom and get your cones pumping. Sounded good live (and brings that deep bass if you want it), but if I were playing it out now (especially in a louder setting or a boomy room/cluttered mix), I'd probably use an external HPF (micro Thumpinator, FDeck). Cooling fans are super-quiet, btw -- nice for micing a cab or late practices -- though mine had a little bit of hiss (not bad, but more than the Glock Blue Rock).
  • Kustom KXB500: Seemed to have a little more oomph/headroom than the F500, with a livelier sound and feel, overall. Some baked-in voice (it's not totally flat), but it's fairly unobtrusive. EQ is decent but nothing special -- sufficient, given that I like the basic tone. Not as much power as the Eich but, with a single, small cab, you might be able to go as loud or louder (depending on its power handling) because of its less extensive deep lows/more aggressive high-passing (I believe that, aside from some deep sub-sonic protection, the Eich has no HPF); the Kustom still has a touch more oomph/presence in the deep lows than the F500 did, but if you take the effects send or DI output into a racked poweramp, you'll hear and feel the difference (speaking of which, it makes a decent little pre if you want to use it that way). I had the Kustom, the F500, and an Aggie TH500 all at the same time. The Aggie and Markbass left, while the Kustom remained. Annoyance: The fan is loud, yo. Discontinued.
  • Aguilar TH500. Some people love it. Some people hate it. I thought it was okay. I didn't have it that long -- someone who loved it heard it the first time I played it out and pestered me to sell it to him until I did, maybe a month later. In the time I had it, I thought it, like the Kustom, had a bit more oomph in the deeper lows (at least with the Drive dialed down) than did the F500. It did the "P-bass thing" better than the F-500. Struck me as just a little bit woolly, though it did a nice job of thickening up a thin bridge pickup sound. When I got it, I was hoping it'd give me the 3D tube-thing and elastic touch I got from my Mesa Walkabout, but with more volume and clarity. Nope. Nor do I think it does the "tube amp" thing particularly well (at least not the things I like about tube amps) except on a superficial level. (And the one time I got to play a TH350 next to a DB751 -- briefly -- I came away with the impression that they were entirely different animals, even at low volume.) Taken on its own merits, though, it's a good-sounding and fairly capable 500 Watt amp. People have reported "meh" headroom at 8 Ohms, but I only ever played it out with a fairly efficient, 4 Ohm 2x12, so I don't know first-hand. Fan is annoying. Build quality was better than the Kustom's but, played side-by-side, the Kustom had more clarity and snap -- sort of the best of both worlds between the F500 and TH500 -- so it stayed while the Aggie went. I'd be interested to see how I got on with one today.
  • Quilter Bass Block 800: Like the Eich, a noticeable step up in power from the TH500, KXB500, and F500. Marketing literature mentioned an intentionally lower damping factor than most SS amps and you can feel and hear the difference it makes -- there is a little more bloom to the notes and the amp is a little more reactive to your speakers (you might like that or you might not). It doesn't feel slow but the starts and stops of notes aren't as sharply delineated as with my GBE 1200 (which has very tight speaker control, in addition to being voiced differently). Lows have a good sense of depth (will do "Dubby" and "get under" a band if you want) and tolerate boosting without feeling out of control -- whatever high-passing there is seems well-implemented. Knobs-at-noon seems fairly close to "flat" but there is noticeable rolloff in the top end. Some nice harmonic character -- even with the slightly rolled-off top, harmonics pop easily. I don't think that it feels or sounds like a good, all-tube amp played in its clean range -- my Shaw B-150 is more detailed. more focused, more solid-feeling, and even more quick-feeling -- but it gets closer to copping that feel in a natural way than the majority of compact amps I've played (and will of course go louder than the Shaw). EQ is simple but effective (though I woudn't mind a Presence control on the amp). I play mine with the Gain set fairly low (dialing it up high engages a two-stage limiter which is more aggressive than I like, but which many people dig). Doesn't have the "magic" of my favorite amps, but would be very functional on most gigs. Fan is annoying (a trend), but this (with a more versatile EQ and a lower noise-floor) is supposed to be addressed with the BB802.
  • EA Doubler and Doubler II (sort-of): Of the amps mentioned so far (minus the Shaw), the Doubler has probably my favorite native sound. Like the F500, it strikes me as having little-to-no baked-in EQ curve (excepting its HPF) but the tone is more open, detailed, and lively. I've not owned this amp, but I did get to play through Mike Arnopol's on several occasions, testing cabs and A/Bing it with various of my amps. I got to play it in its stock incarnation (which I thought sounded nice) and after Mike hot-rodded it with the same power module used in the new Doubler II (which gave it more oomph -- this is why I wrote "sort of" re. the Doubler II -- this was before the release of the "II," which incorporates some other refinements). I got to play the hot-rodded Doubler next to both the KXB500 and the Eich T-900 and liked it better than both of them -- more open, even, and natural-sounding than either and didn't make the cones dance the way the Eich did. Not sure about the EQ -- Mike has, I think, said that he'd voice the bass control differently on his amp -- but I didn't mess with it much. That potential reservation aside, were I shopping for a new micro in the sub $1K range, the Doubler II would be on my short list.
  • Genzler Magellan 800: This was an almost-keeper for me. Nice design (though I'd like some protective ears on it -- on all micros, actually) with an intuitive, versatile control-set (much moreso than the BB800's). Clean DI, quiet fan, clean and quiet Aux-in and Headphone out. Fit and finish felt good. Knobs felt nice. Voiced audibly but not obtrusively -- "warm-yet-snappy" comes to mind -- and the amp was very snappy from the A-string up -- brilliant slap tone, propulsive in fingerstyle -- but I couldn't get over the sense that it was a bit compressed in the lows relative to the rest of its register (kind-of-but-not-exactly like the Thunderfunk 550B in that respect, which aspect of that amp some folks dig and perceive as "tight"). The impression remained when A/Bing it with the compact but non-micro (and definitely non-gigbag-able) Glockenklang Blue Rock and other amps.
  • GK MB200: Let this go in a trade -- wouldn't mind having it back. As a primary gigging head for me, no (though you could do it). Not in the same league, power-wise, as the other amps, nor do I think it sounds as good as the old MB150 or the RB series heads (ABing it with a friend's MB-150, I said it "sounded like an mp3" of that amp) BUT it's tiny (not Trace Elf tiny, but easily gigbag-able), louder than you'd expect (I did gig it), sounds clear and deep, has an Aux-in (though not as nice as the Magellan's) which I actually used for learning tunes on short notice... I could play smaller gigs with it sans PA support (or medium-loud gigs with enough cab, though that might partially defeat the purpose of a tiny amp) and be okay. More than that, though, it's a backup I might actually keep in the gigbag.
  • Genz Benz Shuttles: Discontinued, but the 6.2. 9.0, and 9.2 are worth a look. Plenty has been written about them already. 6.0 and 3.0 are nice but roll off audibly higher than the others -- given your main rig, I think you'd prefer the first three.
There's more, but that's everything I can recall at the moment that I have some first-hand experience with and can see carrying in a bass gigbag.

Of the above, I still have the BB800 and the KXB500.
 
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Euphonic Audio's Doubler (and v2) has notch filtering and variable phase on channel 2. It doesn't have a strict HPF. After literally playing hundreds, if not thousands of gigs- I feel the HPF is way over-rated. I have invariably sought more depth and low end than trying to get rid of it. That's both upright bass and slab...the EA Doubler is squeaky clean in its power and can really show off your slab's sonic signature. For upright, using a Lifeline pickup at reasonable (with drummer) volume- it can sound like my bass, but I like to play loud so it becomes a harmonic rich big ass "bass guitar". I guess my answer to HPF is turn the cabinet backwards or fire it into the floor (with a gap, of course). These are effective in getting a few more dB out of a microphone (Ear Trumpet Nadine). Right now at my studio, I have an old Peavey 2-15, a Headliner 410 and the EA NL210 driven by the Doubler at 2 ohms. I did it because I can, but I only really use the NL210 when I rehearse with the band. Last week, the mando player asked "is that the bass or plugged in?" (that's a victory).

Doubler does have adjustable HPF. Both the original and II.

Re. the HPF on the Doubler II, I inquired with Euphonic Audio back in 2017 and got the following responses from Gary there (excerpted here with his permission):

The slope of the HP filter is 6dB. The freq points are 20Hz, 50Hz, and 80Hz. For electric bass, set the switch to 20Hz and leave it alone. For upright bass, try the 50Hz and 80Hz settings to see which one works best to help eliminate feedback.

Both channels have their own switch settings.
[[Invalid or Expired Link Removed], the frequency for the HPF is set independently for each channel via internal DIP switches.]
***
Thanks, Gary.

Do you find the 6 dB slope sufficient for speaker protection with aggressive electric? Is there some other sub-sonic protection in place? I've always been of the steep HPF school, but am open to other possibilities if they work.

Do you know the slope of the HPF on the original Doubler?

...Finally, do you think the Doubler would work well with amplified cello? My own doubling would likely involve electric bass and cello
[Editor's note: The amplified cello thing hasn't happened yet, but never say never.] more than doublebass, but doublebass is a possibility, too.
***
Hello again, Mark.

There is additional LF rolloff built into the front end of each channel that has been shown to work quite well. Between the two stages, there is plenty of protection.

I am not a fan of steep filters because I feel it affects the pureness of the sound; only use what is required. Plus, the PC board in the Doubler unit is so packed full of parts there is no room to embellish the circuitry any more.

If I recall correctly, the original doubler had a variable filter from 50-150 Hz approximately, and was the same slope. We removed the trim control for the filter to make room for the switches and the optional 80Hz boost on each channel.

Yes, the Doubler will work well with cello. We even have players using it for electric violin. It is a full range preamplifier, so it is very versatile.
***
I went on to ask some more annoying questions about the effects loop and signal routing, but, re. the HPF, 1) There's something there. 2) There's some additional, baked-in roll-off in the front end (not necessarily a bad thing), of which I don't know the slope or the means by which it's accomplished. (Gary did say that a similar roll-off was present in the front end of the other EA amps.)

Where and how the low end is rolled-off, exactly, the upshot of it is this: When I played the Eich T-900 (mentioned earlier as having very open deep lows -- Thomas Eich has said that it does not employ an HPF, but I would be surprised if there was not some sort of subsonic protection present) back-to-back with Mike's hot-rodded Doubler I (which should be similar in its HPF approach, if not identical) at similar volumes and trying to dial-in similar sounds, through a couple of MAS 18s (which go pretty low -- -3 dB points somewhere in the 30s), I did not find the low end of the Doubler to be lacking or anemic. It didn't have the very deep-feeling lows of my GBE 1200 with the LF Extend dialed fully down (or the at least-as-deep lows of certain tube amps), but I didn't get that "something's missing" sense that I sometimes have with other compact amps.

Conversely, with the Eich, there was a lot more visible cone-movement. I got good sounds with that amp, live, but felt that I needed to bring more cab to feel safe than with, for example, my Kustom KXB500. When I asked about the amp's HPF, I was concerned that the shallow slope in the specs would result in something that both sounded anemic in the lows and failed to protect the speakers very well.

While I haven't owned a Doubler (and, strictly speaking, haven't played a Doubler II) and might refine my opinion if I got to spend some real time with the amp, what I've experienced of V1 suggests that what EA has in place is both effective at speaker protection and manages not to rob the amp of too much low-end impact. Your more extensive experience, @Sambo, would seem to suggest the same.
 
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GBE-400 was the one with only an FET preamp... so much for tubes???

LMAO... I guess so. You know what's under the hood of that amp, so you'd be able to tell me that I nuts... but there is something about the upper mids and highs on the GBE400 that seemed to set it apart from the other GBE amps. And the other amps were no slouches. I loved the control set on those amps - particularly the 5 band EQ.