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Self Taught

#41
I think people with a "good ear" are often self-taught because, well, they can--that's what having a "good ear" means. They take more naturally to it, hear the notes, feel the groove. That doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit from appropriate "lessons", but they can accomplish much without them.

I'm self-taught, in that when I picked-up the electric bass there weren't any electric bass teachers around. I used a guitar book to figure out tuning, etc.

But the reality is that no one is completely self-taught, not if you ever play out with other real musicians. Believe me, I've been given a lesson by a drummer or guitar player right in the middle of a song! That's the best lesson: learning what you can from other accomplished musicians, and depending on the genre, you might need to know some of their language, which varies from, say, jazz to rock, where you might need more formal training to converse with the former more so than the latter.
 
#42
"Self-taught and proud of it" is a good excuse for:

a) Having dealt with a bad instructor (in matters of technique, boredom, wanting to teach HIS favorite stuff)
b) Having an ego problem with people telling you what to do and what is good for you
c) Not being able to afford lessons.

I can only understand option "c"

I hate it when most self-taught people think that by being self-taught, they're not being limited, they play their own way, they haven't been guided on what to do.
Well the truth is that an instructor ( a GOOD instructor) helps you express what you want through your music in a better way.
Learning theory is like learning grammar. Helps you express what you want properly! Doesn't make you express what your teacher wants.
Also, when it comes to the instruments, a proper instructor helps you learn a technique that will prevent injuries and in the same time lets your full potential come out without limiting you.

So the next time you're proud of being self-taught and money is not an issue, think again.
 
#44
I enjoy the fact that I'm self taught. There's no commitment to showing up for lessons on a certain day of the week, and I can learn at my own pace and can work on my own. I bought a book on Technique when I started, so playing properly was never a problem. As for theory, I took a "Music Theory and Composition" class two years ago (in 11th grade) which taught me to read music, hear chord changes, identify intervals, identify key signatures, and all of that sort of stuff. As for notes on the fretboard, modes and how they work, chords, and many other things, I simply learned on my own with some help from the internet.

Sometimes I consider taking lessons, but then I realize I wouldn't really know what I want to do anyways. I enjoy the freedom of being self taught, and learning what I want, when I want. If I don't understand something, that's what the internet is for I guess.

Brian
 
#45
I'm self-taught and while I have made may way into many great musical situations there are certain downfalls that I think need to be addressed. I have played for about 27 years now. My ear is good, my technique is fine, I can groove and sit in the pocket, but my limited theory (or vocabulary) has limited me being able to play what I'm "hearing." Victor Wooten has a great analogy about this. He says that learing to play an instrument, or music in the broader sense is like learning a language. When we speak we don't think about using nouns, of pronouns and such, but over time we become experts, so to speak (pun not intended). Learning more vocabulary and sentence structure only increases your ability to communicate. I think that I have to agree with his assessment in that the more you know, the better your possiblilty for communication. Right now in my development I think that I can "speak the language" but like a foreigner in a new land I cannot "read the signs." Meaning, I can have a musical conversation of sorts, but I am having difficulty getting to that next level. I can hear many things in my head that I can't get out to my hands. A lot of that is diligence on the instrument that I can no longer afford with work and family considerations, but I know that with theory training and understanding it could only open doors for me that will otherwise remain closed. That's my perspective and hopefully food for thought.
 
#46
DeluxeRed said:
I think people with a "good ear" are often self-taught because, well, they can--that's what having a "good ear" means. They take more naturally to it, hear the notes, feel the groove. That doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit from appropriate "lessons", but they can accomplish much without them.

I'm self-taught, in that when I picked-up the electric bass there weren't any electric bass teachers around. I used a guitar book to figure out tuning, etc.

But the reality is that no one is completely self-taught, not if you ever play out with other real musicians. Believe me, I've been given a lesson by a drummer or guitar player right in the middle of a song! That's the best lesson: learning what you can from other accomplished musicians, and depending on the genre, you might need to know some of their language, which varies from, say, jazz to rock, where you might need more formal training to converse with the former more so than the latter.
Click to expand...

+1

also, i dont think people are limited like people say on here by either taking lessons or not. sadly you either got musical talent or dont. just like i can't fly a plane or paint a picture some people cant keep a beat.
 
#47
I'm self-taught on bass, but had formal lessons as a drummer for a number of years.

TBH, being self-taught has been good for me. I actually gave up drumming after many years, I just became too frustrated with what I sometimes couldn't fulfil.

However, on bass I have less expectations....it's all come from me, and as a result, I feel that my style is my own (within reason!). Yes, I probably break every rule in the book, but I've never had any complaints!

As a drummer, I played alongside 'trained' bassists. I know there are multiple exceptions, but many of those guys were technically great, but had no soul....no passion or identity.

I believe being self/tutored is one thing, but I reckon the most important thing is the musical ear. All the lessons in the world won't matter is you can't develop that.
 
#50
Self taught on guitar and now on bass.

Talking about musical illiteracy as if it were a badge of honor is downright appalling, IMO! Sight reading liberated me and made me better in the same way reading and writing proper English got me into the Ivy leagues. I can't imagine being a talented speaker and not being able to read the directions on a can of soup. I heard Jeff Berlin say once that if you don't read music, "you better know with absolute certainty that you're going to be successful in your area of music" because if you don't, paying studio session gigs are gonna hand you a score and tell you to learn it on the spot. Great advice for those of us that aren't members of the Stones or U2.
 
#51
This topic reminds me of a dichotomy - the vast gulf between educated symphony players who can't improvise, and hip jazz cats who can't read.

It's a given that any player will have to develop their ear and this is an area where the self-taught can often excel, having to process and respond to musical data without the pre-knowledge of a chart.
One can also certainly built chops and a career without taking a independent lesson - easier today than ever before although as others have referenced if you're studying a video, in a way you are no longer truly 'self-taught' having chosen to incorporate elements of someone else's style into your own.

What I would recommend to any musician regardless of their path is to learn how to read music - Not tabs, but actual notation.

Yes, it can be hard, but compare two situations (and I apologize for the cliched scenario in advance) - Learning Donna Lee strictly by ear for the first time and endlessly fast-forwarding/rewinding to hear and learn all the phrasing correctly...or knowing enough theory to read the tune's head off a chart at one's own pace and then get it under the fingers.
 
#52
Dr. Cheese said:
I am mainly self taught, but I hit a wall a while back so I am now taking lessons. I know that in order to really do what I would like musically, I need a degree (year or two) of formal training.
Click to expand...

I think this is the essence of why a teacher may be necessary. No matter how much you practice, you'll never realize your full potential as a musician playing (and studying, and learning) by yourself.

To me, the question is, are you as dedicated to improving by yourself as you would be with a teacher? I mean, let's face it: if you've got someone holding you accountable for getting better, my guess is that in every case that motivation will help.

I have never had a lesson in bass, nor guitar, but I did study the viola classically for 5 years. I hated those lessons. I hated being forced to read music before I really felt competent even playing. I hated being locked into the notes on the page.

Fast forward to drumming: I've been a drummer since I was nine. Self taught. One day at the age of 22 I decided to get a lesson from one of the instructors in the area. It was expensive ($75 for 45 minutes), but he showed me things in that lesson that I am still working on. Worth every penny.

I am self-taught with the bass. At the moment, I look forward to getting home every day, picking up the bass for 1-2 hours and playing away. I'm working on my technique, figuring things out by myself, progressing as a player. Do I need a teacher right now? Not IMO. But I'll hit a wall eventually, either with my technique or my inspiration, and this is where I think a teacher becomes very helpful and important.

So I think the question anybody serious about improving should ask themself is, "Am I being a good teacher to myself? Am I holding myself accountable for improving?"
 
#53
Me: self-taught on bass, although I had several years of public school band instruction on trombone. When I switched to tuba, I was given a fingering chart. And since I was already playing electric bass (learned by playing along with Grand Funk and Alice Cooper records), my upright instruction consisted of suggestions regarding bowing and plucking. I was able to sight read, but that's a skill I rarely used after graduating.

I also learned some theory by reading and doing. I don't know the names of all the "modes", but I know what minor chord goes with what major scale, what makes a chord major/minor/suspended/diminished/augmented/7th, etc. It works for what I use it for.

But one of the things that self-teaching promotes, IMO, is laziness. If nobody is pushing you, it's easy to fall into a rut of practicing the same old scales, songs and licks. Sometimes you need a taskmaster. I have to make a conscious decision that I'm going to learn something new that incorporates a technique or style that I've never used before, and just do it. That takes an effort that I'm not aways willing to put forth -- at the time, at least. And if I get stuck on something, there's no dearth of youtube videos of people showing me exactly how they do it!
 
#55
I'm self taught on the bass, but I took piano lessons when I was a kid, and started playing bass when I was a teenager. I took piano lessons until the day the instructor put a piece of music in front of me that I had never seen, and played through it without making any mistakes. She could never understand why I quit that day, and to this day, I can't figure it out either! I just really wanted to play bass, and didn't want to do it under the constraints of having a teacher.

I also studied music in college, until I realized that my school only gave degrees in classical study, and there was no electric bass or jazz program at my school.

I did take a few lessons here and there, but could never afford to keep up with them. The downsides to the route I went are numerous. Had I been trained more formally, I would probably be able to read at a level that I was able to read on the piano as a teenager. I think that my abilities would have reached the level that they are at today over ten years ago. My progress has been very slow after the initial learning process that got me to the point where I could jam with other people.

I see no upside to the route that I went, but I don't believe in harping on the past and having regrets. It was the path that made sense to me when I was young, and I had a lot of fun. My only openings into a career in music currently involve the connections I have made over the years, and the bands I play with. With stronger reading skills, and theoretical knowledge, I might be able to do this more on a professional level without help from my friends.
 
#56
ysand said:
"Self-taught and proud of it" is a good excuse for:

a) Having dealt with a bad instructor (in matters of technique, boredom, wanting to teach HIS favorite stuff)
b) Having an ego problem with people telling you what to do and what is good for you
c) Not being able to afford lessons.

I can only understand option "c"

I hate it when most self-taught people think that by being self-taught, they're not being limited, they play their own way, they haven't been guided on what to do.
Well the truth is that an instructor ( a GOOD instructor) helps you express what you want through your music in a better way.
Learning theory is like learning grammar. Helps you express what you want properly! Doesn't make you express what your teacher wants.
Also, when it comes to the instruments, a proper instructor helps you learn a technique that will prevent injuries and in the same time lets your full potential come out without limiting you.

So the next time you're proud of being self-taught and money is not an issue, think again.
Click to expand...

BRILLIANTLY SAID.
 
#58
I studied piano with a teacher for a few years, then dropped that to play flute in school band, then dropped that to play bass. So I was teaching myself bass, but I already had a background in music. As far as self-teaching goes...well, I was limited by the fact that my teacher was no better than I was! I have no great regrets about self-teaching, but I do think that it's probably the slow way to learn. There were many aspects of my technique that I had to learn multiple times - first the wrong way, then the right way! If you're going to self-teach, try to get as much outside input as possible. Listen to many different kinds of music, not just the ones that you're used to playing or hearing, and figure out not just what is being played, but why. Make use of internet resources like StudyBass.com. And get playing with musicians who are better than you.

As far as theory goes, I can only say that the more musical theory that I understand, the freer my artistic expression becomes. I don't think that an understanding of musical theory is a box to contain artistic expression at all, rather that it's more like a toolbox - If all I have in my toolbox is a screwdriver, then all I'm able to do is turn screws, but if I also have a spanner, a hammer, a chisel, a saw, pliers...you get the idea. Our understanding of musical theory comes from a long history of people who played music, wrote music, pushed the boundaries of music...why pass up the opportunity to stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before, and in doing so see farther than they have?
 
#59
no flame here , don't want to start anything here but...
I'm self-taught and not because arrogance or problems with people telling me what to do

sometimes you work better on your own, you're more productive studing by books,
dvds and of course the internet :), a self taugh person must have a discipline just like a teacher
guided student.

being self taugh doesn't mean be arrogant...

there's no need for the "terrorism" about learning theory, technique or whatever as if it is almost
impossible to someone learn that by yourself, or if you do you're doing it wrong.

Theory isn't that hard to learn, a teacher may offer to you shortcuts to learn that faster than a self
taugh but of course you can learn it by your self why not?
Why only a teacher is able to teach you theory, technique or music?
There're so many great dvds, book that cover those subjects as well as a teacher...
so why judge self taugh musicians ?

so yes I'm a self taugh and I'm proud of it.. :):)
 

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