Seriously Thinking About A 5-String ...

[Steve Dallman]

I switched to 5's in the late 80's. I still have a couple 4's...strictly for giving lessons. Do I need to play a 5? No, but I want to. I have several 5's. I have found no need (other than for giving lessons) to own a 4.

I don't need 6 cylinders in my car. I don't need cheese on my hamburger. I don't need to wear underwear. I don't need to call my Mom every week. Need has very little to do with most of our lives.

I need a low B about as much as I need a Low E. I have them both for the same reasons.

I've been playing 5's for 25 years now. I have no more problems with 5's than I found with 4's. I've had the occasional dead B string out of the package, but I got plenty of sets of 4 strings with a dead low E. No spacing problems, no flubby low B problems, no speaker problems...

I take that back. The pickups on my 35" 1996 PV Accelerator bass could be stronger on the low B (newer PV 5 strings have wider VLF pickups.) The pickups on my Steinberger Spirit 5 didn't pick up the B or G well (pickups replaced years ago.)

The "geekery" and "digression" statement escapes me. As with most things, it's often too easy just to criticize that which we don't like.

No one made me choose a 5. I used a D tuner for a few years, found myself leaving it in D most of the time, decided it was time to try a 5 and I did, and loved it. A 4 string feels like I have a finger missing to me. A 5 gives me more of what I play bass for.

I guess I just fell victim to "geekery" and digressed from the "true point." What exactly was that point?

 

[Bongolation]

Sanctimonious much? I can play that game, too: "a low B five string is a better bass instrument than a four because it has lower notes." That statement is no sillier than yours.

Actually it is, because the low B's fundamental B0@~30.8Hz is below the ability of most gear to accurately reproduce, and a lot of people's hearing. Try it with heavy flats and a mute to damp overtones and note the precipitous roll-off of the actual, true note. Even E1, the traditional low end, is often problematic @~41.2Hz.

True bass instrumentation is about the low fundamental frequencies, and that's not what you're hearing with those "extra notes" on a five with rounds, but higher overtones -- "bass guitar" sound -- for which I personally have no use except as effects or second-track bass.

We've been through this before, and I'm not inclined to do it again. The physics support the premise and (just barely!) the classical bass tonal range.

There are other reasons to use or not use a five, but they're all in the not-use column for me except for second-track stuff. You may feel differently.

 

[morgansterne]

I think it took me about six months to fully get used to playing a five string instead of a four. I'm not a diligent practicer (I spend more practice time on keyboard), so your transition might be faster. But don't go buying yr first fiver and schedule an important gig for the next week.
for the first half year I'd use the fiver exclusively during band practice but still switch to the four for most of the time at gigs.

 

[dalkowski]

don't go buying yr first fiver and schedule an important gig for the next week.

Oh, man +1

 

[obimark]

Its all good- but I know for me at this point a 5 is not right. Could I play it if I wanted to, sure, but for the music I play it is just not worth the extra weight to have some lower notes available, that in most bands just won't cut through due to the way our hearing works. That's one thing I hate abut some of the "new country" covers, is for whatever reason those "football" playing country dudes love that low B and C note, and even on there recordings it DOESN"T cut through well.
If I absolutely had to have the low b and C notes, I'd buy a good octave pedal and just play it on a 4-string on the A string.

 

[TundraMan]

I recently switched to a 5 string (low B). I find myself rarely playing lower than D, so in my case getting one for the additional range wasn't really a huge benefit.

However, I have been using the 5th string quite often as easy access to lower notes without having to shift hand positions. I'm using that 5th string a lot more than I thought I would. At this point I live in fear of breaking a string in a gig because my backup is a four-stringer and I've gotten so use to the 5'er.

 

[awilkie84]

Nope. They're pretty much the same as 4's, minus the fact that they have an added B (or C) string. You probably wouldn't want to use an octaver on the B string, though. And you might need to be a bit more careful about not blowing out a speaker by playing too aggressively and loudly on the B string.

I use an Octaver on my B. Nice inaudible rumble.

 

[El-Bob]

Here's another pro's/con's list:

Pro's:

1) You can cover more notes in any one position (this is a HUGE pro).

2) You have access to lower C and D notes, both of which are very common in most genres of music, and the lowest C and D on a 4 string are often a little bit awkwardly high when playing live (in my opinion).

3) Narrower string spacing (usually) is a plus for me, although you can get wide-neck 5ers. I'm used to playing right around 17-17.5mm spacing, so I find 5's far more comfortable.

Cons:

1) You may get a 'floppy' B, if you're using strings that are too light. Just use an appropriate gauge so that the tension of the B matches the tension of the other strings. Most bassists want to use an outrageously light gauge B-string, and then they complain when simple physics dictate that it will be floppy.

2) You might need a more serious amp... good speaker coverage and more power to reproduce the low B properly. I do fine with a 4x10 and 2x10 stacked, and about 300 watts into them.

3) ... I'm sure there's something, but I can't think of it...

Summary: A 5 lets you do everything you can do on a 4, but with more options in any position, and access to some handy lower notes. It really makes sense for a bass guitar to have that low C... you'll understand when you play one for a while, especially if you play live at all.

 

[El-Bob]

Its all good- but I know for me at this point a 5 is not right. Could I play it if I wanted to, sure, but for the music I play it is just not worth the extra weight to have some lower notes available, that in most bands just won't cut through due to the way our hearing works. That's one thing I hate abut some of the "new country" covers, is for whatever reason those "football" playing country dudes love that low B and C note, and even on there recordings it DOESN"T cut through well.
If I absolutely had to have the low b and C notes, I'd buy a good octave pedal and just play it on a 4-string on the A string.

I see your point here.

I'm not into country at all, but every once in a while when I turn on the radio and the country station happens to be on, I notice a lot of 5-string use. I've heard a few songs where those low notes were quite audible as well, even on a crappy car stereo system, so I'm not sure if I agree with you entirely. I also find that I cut through live pretty well in an alt. rock setting using my low B string, but I do boost my mids, cut my lows, and have my bridge in series... it really tightens things up (a GK head into some Yorkville cabs helps with the tightness too).

 

[Ric5]

... is there anything I should know before I buy one? Things like the strings cost more*, or effects don't like them; than kind of thing. Basically, anything that would make it a waste of money.

*(I already know)

Thanks in advance!!

They come in 2 basic flavors ... active and passive.

If you go active then get a 3 or 4 band preamp. The mids really work nice on a low B.

 

[awilkie84]

Its all good- but I know for me at this point a 5 is not right. Could I play it if I wanted to, sure, but for the music I play it is just not worth the extra weight to have some lower notes available, that in most bands just won't cut through due to the way our hearing works. That's one thing I hate abut some of the "new country" covers, is for whatever reason those "football" playing country dudes love that low B and C note, and even on there recordings it DOESN"T cut through well.
If I absolutely had to have the low b and C notes, I'd buy a good octave pedal and just play it on a 4-string on the A string.

So, you'd rather have to kick a pedal on/off, have potentially flakey tone & much more to worry about than just playing a lower string sparingly? Also, my 5 string Spector is LIGHTER than most MIA 4 string Fenders.

 

[Snakeman1066]

worst thing that can happen is you use the B string as a thumb rest..lol

I made the switch about 6 years ago and i go back and forth from 5 string to 4 string on a regular basis depending on the gig.
I was actually in a band where the guitard asked me to go back to a 4 because my fifth string confused him..lol

but do go out and play as many as you can and get a feel for the fiver and honestly ask yourself if you need one...

 

[Gorn]

My brain can't process an odd number of strings. Having the A string in the middle just didn't work for me, or the D if I went EADGC.

 

[Red Four]

Well, for all the talk, it's really just about personal preference at the end of the day. if you love playing and hearing the full range of a 5-string, it's for you, and any logistical issues are insignificant. If you don't enjoy it, if it doesn't feel "right" to you, then don't worry about it. Only one string's worth of difference can really change the way you play the instrument, for better or worse, so consider how you might feel about that.

As for the editorial side of the matter, which questions like these always turn into, I will say that for all the many masterful and wonderful players who play extended-low-range instruments, at the end of the day the only player who's ever made me care that he plays an extra low string is Tony Levin. To my ear, he's the only one who's made it musical and creative enough for me to pay attention. Everyone else's low excursions I can pretty much take or leave, as the sound invariably loses some focus and expressiveness in that range, and those who over-emphasize it just don't sound very good to my ears.

But everyone has their own ideas about the sonic, musical, and physical "sweet spot" of an instrument. Hope you find yours and love it.

 

[Invisible]

I only play 5strings basses, I' m still alive. I don't need four anymore. Buy one

 

[1bassleft]

Slightly irritating to read in these threads that owning more than one bass, and any 5er, makes me a rubbish player. I am, but that's nothing to do with it.

Things to think about? I did change my speaker drivers out, but I didn't have great difficulty or expense in finding them with specs and charts showing 30Hz within their capability and my earballs are capable of 20Hz. It's >16kHz that's a struggle. Finding the B gauge you like might take playing around, and that advice way up about striking it differently to how you would an E is good.

Like a previous mentioned, if two is the max you carry around, it can end up being a backup 5, with the 4 left feeling unloved.

 

[Steve Dallman]

We play a lot of old blues and rock tunes that we have to lower a bit, due to our aging voices not having the range we once had. With the 5 I can maintain the same basslines where on a 4 I'd have to play parts of the pattern an octave higher. With some songs, it doesn't matter but with many, the 5 is a huge asset. I use the lower notes no more than the notes on other strings. They are just there and are part of what I play. I usually play a Line 6 5 string, and the low notes are clear and distinct.

Reproducing the fundamental of the lowest notes isn't all that much of an issue. If it were, there would be no SVT's, high impedance passive pickups or most of the speaker cabinets used by bass players since the electric bass entered the scene.

 

[Shocker]

I also am thinking about getting a 5 string bass as well.

I am looking at and WAITING for the Jackson Kelly Bird Bass Series 5 string that David in Megadeth uses or has been using since they made one for him back in May of 2012. There's a video of him promoing it backstage before a concert.
I have both a Epiphone Thunderbird and a BC Rich Mockingbird so I thought why not since I have been looking into getting a 5 string. The ONLY thing is Jackson has NOT put this bass into production yet. I call Jackson and they say they have no recent plans on releasing it yet. And I called before Christmas and the guy said that maybe they will introduce the bass at NAMM next year, meaning January of THIS YEAR. SO NAMM came and went without even a HINT of the Jackson Kelly Bird Bass Series releasing the 5 string edition. I am in NO rush to get a 5 string so I think that I am gonna wait til they release it to the public. Lucky Dave gets to use one and has been for a while now.
The other options that I was looking at before I came acrosed the Kelly Bird Bass was the NEW Epiphone Thunderbird IV PRO series 5 string. I hear that the NEW Thunderbirds IV PRO series sound even BETTER than the preivous releases by the Thunderbird.
Another option was the BC Rich 5 String Warlock. I am NOT a big fan of the Warlocks but am of BC Rich. I would LOVE it iif BC Rich would release a BICH version bass in either a 4 or 5 string would be sooo awesome. Yes I am sorta stuck in the 80's but not that much as the Warlock was a BIG guitar in both guitar and bass.

So that's my 2 cents and if you are going ot go to a 5 string try and get one that doesn't do a NOSE dive.hehehehehehe and maybe in that case GO WITH a FENDER wither P-Bass or Jazz Special. I KNOW those don't do a nose diver at all. Or at least that's what I've been told.

 

[baddarryl]

It just takes getting used to. When I first got my 5 I was playing live every week. For a while I would pick up the 4 for harder songs as I would get lost in the fret board on my 5. My 5 had an overall better tone and I like to be able to play more from one position so it didn't take me long to move exclusively to that. Also when learning things by ear I don't have to screw with my tunings, just find the notes and go. Frustrates guitards too because they are like "What are you playing?"' Funny.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Actually it is, because the low B's fundamental B0@~30.8Hz is below the ability of most gear to accurately reproduce, and a lot of people's hearing. Try it with heavy flats and a mute to damp overtones and note the precipitous roll-off of the actual, true note. Even E1, the traditional low end, is often problematic @~41.2Hz.

Your physics is correct, but your definition of "true note" is highly unusual: in that world, purity would come from a sine-wave generating synth.

True bass instrumentation is about the low fundamental frequencies, and that's not what you're hearing with those "extra notes" on a five with rounds, but higher overtones -- "bass guitar" sound -- for which I personally have no use except as effects or second-track bass.

Again, your fundamentalist (pun intended) definition of "true bass instrumentation" is narrow, and certainly not the norm. Sub-E bass lines are now common even in highly traditional genres such as blues and country. Roundwounds are also the norm. Perhaps you play bluegrass?

Also, why is it okay for keyboard players to play that low, but not bass guitarists? Physics applies equally to them!

I have no problem with your personal definition of "bass instrument". Point is, I fail to see how it's a concern for the OP. In over 3 decades I have never encountered any concern about my bass rig's ability to reproduce the fundamental, whether I was playing four string or five. In fact the only concern I've received has been about too much low frequency information blurring with the kick drum. So, I encourage the OP not to worry about an ultra-hi-fi rig for five string. In the real world, few if any will care whether your gig rig covers 30-50Hz.