'Set List Blows' ...the name for my new band coming soon!
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Set list blows
- Thread starter Xemoran
- Start date
Our band has a similar member who prefers obscure B sides. Our band is democratic and we all get equal votes in songs - provided the singer can sing them. Sometimes we find the gems that nobody knows the song or band but the second they hear it they know. The running joke is we will throw in one of those songs when we sense the crowd needs a smoke/bathroom break.
The singer has to have some control because she knows best what fits her voice, but I've hated bands where one person was in control for reasons like this. My favorite situations were mostly democratic: every band member could propose songs. It didn't mean automatic acceptance, because maybe a tune wasn't a good fit for the vocalist(s), or too difficult for the band to get tight, etc. But there would always be discussion, and if f'r instance nobody was really thrilled with any of a member's choices we'd probably do one of them anyway just for democracy's sake.
Of course there were members who would abuse veto power. A singer I worked with would shoot down songs that had too many words (e.g. "bro country" with rap-style lyrics), a guitarist I worked with tried to shoot down any song that didn't have a flashy guitar solo. But with enough negotiation, everyone would have their selections in the set list.
Bottom line: sorry that your singer is such a control freak... and also unaware, as LBS-Bass said. I work with a bunch of bands, a bunch of musicians, a bunch of styles, and almost everyone understands that it's important to include a few of "those songs" in each set. Doesn't have to be "Brown Eyed Sally" and "Mustang Girl" (sic)... just well-known, danceable radio hits.
The problem is not that there isn't material. The real problem? Laziness.
I can't tell you how many bands I've briefly joined only to discover that no one wanted to learn anything new. Why do bands play Sweet Home Alabama? Because they already know it. They convince themselves that it's what the audience wants to hear so that they don't have to do any work or learn anything new. And because a few drunk people will get up and dance to it, they pat themselves on the back and point to this as evidence.
I played a show last night with a band I'm in at a place where I play frequently with a few different bands. I got there early enough to catch the last set of the band that did the early show. After that show, the guitarist in that band came up to me as I was setting up and said, "hey, aren't you also in that band _____ ? Are you guys playing here again any time soon?" Turns out he had caught our last show there and he spent the next five minutes telling me how much he and his friends appreciated our song list. "Just one after the other, we were just amazed at the songs you were pulling off. No one plays that stuff."
So, what do we play? Hits. But we play hits we had to learn because they aren't the same hits everyone else plays, and every single time we play out, that's exactly what we hear from the audience- we love your band because you play the stuff no one else plays. It works, but you have to actually do some work to make it happen.
Awesome story. Thanks for sharing it.
They’re obviously well known songs. How did your band choose these songs?
Savvy band leader?
Democratic voting?
Danceable beat/tempo?
Strong singable melody?
Any advice/suggestions/tips for HOW we can transition our set lists across?
This particular band has three very strong harmonists so we focus a lot on that. Most of the songs are things that either already have strong harmony or songs that we can add strong harmony to. To be very honest, we don't choose songs as much as they choose us. Our rehearsals (when we aren't prepping a show) are pretty loose sessions where we'll just start noodling around with music that comes to mind, and we play along with whatever comes up, then we decide if the songs we've played that night are worth adding to our master list for further work. If everyone agrees, they go on the list.
There are songs on the list that haven't been worked up because they're labor intensive; I'm talking about things like Creek Alley which is a boatload of lyrics to memorize. Our lead singer really wants to do that one, but I just haven't had the time to sit down and learn it all. The harmonies come naturally to us but the lyrics not so much.
It may happen some day, but easier songs usually get more attention because at some point we usually have a deadline to prep for the next show. We're already doing a ton of work to get things ready so inevitably some things will get pushed aside.
Your band is an exception and therefore one that I’d follow from venue to venue. I’d join that band!
If you wish to play originals or lesser known tunes, First you need to play some material people know and do a good job of it. That gives you credibility with the audience. Once you establish your credentials (that you can play well) then people will be more receptive to lesser known songs or originals. You start with what they know and then they will follow you to where you are going.
I have played in a few Originals bands and we always started playing known songs and then brought on our originals. Works every time.
Is it possible that part of the issue is also not knowing how to pace your sets? Pace is very important. You want to take the audience on a journey. Like a great lead part there has to be the build up to the crescendo. You need to get them up and going then cool them down. And since most work bars you need to do those extra things that help sell liquor. You get em up hard and then cool it down and some one in that band says man I am thirsty or reach back and grab your beer and take a good pull on it. And finally remember to acknowledge the staff. Know your bar tenders names and the serving staff and acknowledge those folks from the stage and mention tips to the audience. Those things get you asked back and hopefully setting bar records.
Once upon a time I was in a band that set bar records in EVERY venue they ever played because we all knew "we were not musicians we were liquor salesman". Those words were spoken to me 61 years ago when at 8 I was playing with guys in there 30's in NYC. My first gig at the Peppermint lounge (owned by Wilt Chamberlain) the manager told me that. He was right, sell liquor you have a job. Play great and sell no liquor and your looking for a job. You are a liquor salesman.
You need to have the talk with your band mates. A more balanced approach of known and lesser known songs. And yeah learn 2 or 3 of those songs everyone has flogged for decades. So when some tipsy person yells out Freebird and others join in you can hush and amaze them with the best version they have heard since Skynyrd played it in the 70's.
I have played in a few Originals bands and we always started playing known songs and then brought on our originals. Works every time.
Is it possible that part of the issue is also not knowing how to pace your sets? Pace is very important. You want to take the audience on a journey. Like a great lead part there has to be the build up to the crescendo. You need to get them up and going then cool them down. And since most work bars you need to do those extra things that help sell liquor. You get em up hard and then cool it down and some one in that band says man I am thirsty or reach back and grab your beer and take a good pull on it. And finally remember to acknowledge the staff. Know your bar tenders names and the serving staff and acknowledge those folks from the stage and mention tips to the audience. Those things get you asked back and hopefully setting bar records.
Once upon a time I was in a band that set bar records in EVERY venue they ever played because we all knew "we were not musicians we were liquor salesman". Those words were spoken to me 61 years ago when at 8 I was playing with guys in there 30's in NYC. My first gig at the Peppermint lounge (owned by Wilt Chamberlain) the manager told me that. He was right, sell liquor you have a job. Play great and sell no liquor and your looking for a job. You are a liquor salesman.
You need to have the talk with your band mates. A more balanced approach of known and lesser known songs. And yeah learn 2 or 3 of those songs everyone has flogged for decades. So when some tipsy person yells out Freebird and others join in you can hush and amaze them with the best version they have heard since Skynyrd played it in the 70's.
That's very true. I think I know those guys. I think I'm in that band.
Well, playing originals is a totally different scene.
It is, but I am referring to the acts I go see, not what I am personally playing. The acts that I see regularly are not playing the same old set list and they stay busy. I have yet to hear "Brown Eyed Girl", "Mustang Sally", "Give Me Three Steps", etc from any of the acts I have seen in the past three years.
I didn't go through all the responses. Can you post the setlist? I am just curious.
I always had the mindset of doing a few songs we all hate playing, a few B sides and the rest are popular, danceable and not over played. There are certainly many songs to choose from that will go over every night.
I always had the mindset of doing a few songs we all hate playing, a few B sides and the rest are popular, danceable and not over played. There are certainly many songs to choose from that will go over every night.
I can relate. Recently got asked to play with a cover band. Drummer sends me the set list, I passed on the gig.
Did the OP ever post the setlist? I think we could give more relevant and constructive recommendations if we knew what kinds of songs he thinks "blows."
I read through the thread and saw a lot of people agreeing that you need to play popular songs, but not giving direct advice on how to deal with the band, so I'll give it a shot. I'm in a very similar situation. Singer and guitarist started the band by converting from an acoustic duo to a 4 piece, but not all the songs transferred from acoustic to full band so well. We also had a drummer who preferred the b-sides (he has since left and been replaced). We play 90s/00s alternative and pop rock. Here are some options:
1. Deal with it, or find a new band: it's not your band, so just let it be
2. Start a democratic system of selecting songs, or allow veto powers (each person can reject 1 song per show)
3. Switch who creates the set list for each show or venue. Since you worked at the venue and know the typical patrons, ask to do the set list (or ask for 'sentimental reasons' as it's 'been your dream to play your home bar').
4. Be direct about it. Explain that you need to play more "dance-able" or "sing-along" songs for the crowd.
5. Ask to change "just this one time, to see how it goes", and see if they'll agree to experiment.
6. Make the boring songs more "dance-able", or shorten them. Remove a verse or chorus, skip a solo section/interlude, or take it slightly faster. Or arrange a different version of the song to be more up beat.
7. Suggest different sets for different style of shows. Add more slow or b-sides to an evening brewery set but stick to up-beat tunes for late night bar gigs
The hardest part about this is that you are asking them to change how they've always done it. You need to acknowledge that it's new and different, but offer ways to compromise. That's why the 3rd option and 5th might work. "Let me try the set list for this gig, and then you can do the next one", or "Let's try it out a new way just once and then evaluate". I've had some success doing it, but not always, and you must accept you might be wrong on some songs. The 6th one can work, but you need the full band in agreement if you change it too much. It sucks trying to dig in and make the bass line more lively when the drummer isn't matching your feel.
My examples: Everyone brought 2 songs to learn with limited veto powers. I brought sublime's "What I got", which the guitarist hated because the guitar is repetitive and "everyone plays it at bars", but he saved his veto for another song. When we played it live the crowd loved it, so now it's always on the set list.
We also played a slowed down version of a song because they did it that way acoustically. I asked if we could just try in rehearsal to play it faster and more rockin. After some back and forth the new version turned out way better. (I tried this with other songs, and they were worse, so it doesn't always work out, but it's good to experiment).
But it can also go the other way. I've had songs I hated and wanted to get rid of, but we had people come up saying "I hadn't heard that song in years, thanks for playing it". Now is it worth the rest of the crowd being bored except for that one couple...
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I've found that musicians who don't want to play the hits, or play danceable music, etc., are not easily swayed to do so. Logic doesn't work. To me it seems to be like a badge of honor to only play obscure songs or b-sides. In most cases, in my experience, trying to get them to play commercial music is a no-win situation. And the bottom line is, for any band, and for things other than the song list, too, the band needs to all be on the same page for it to be successful.
You're assuming the rest of the crowd didn't like the song.
There's a frequent disconnect here where people mistake songs that are obscure for songs that were big hits that are not often played by cover bands. Depending on your age, a lot of songs might fall into that latter category that you are personally not familiar with, but that doesn't mean that your audience doesn't know them.
Happens to me all the time with newer songs. I often find myself asking bandmates "is the audience going to know this?" when they propose songs, because I personally don't know them. Often the answer is yes. I've seen it happen the other way with players who are younger than I am, and won't know that, say, Baby Blue by Badfinger was a hit song. They think it's some obscure B side. Same with Undun by Guess Who. That song gets more applause than any other song we play.
You either carry off your set list or you can't.
Doesn't really matter whats on it, if people dont come to gigs so you are a viable expense, you have it 'wrong'
One of the best bands I'm in has a BL who picks his blues toons because thats what he wants to play.
He doesn't want the money, often will not take any split, so he pretty much doesn't care for 'rubbish' gigs.
It works on a level that we get nice gigs, is very well regarded, but you have to choose what you take on gigwise.
And all the guys that get asked to play continue to work, so although not perfect and certainly not populist, continue to be available.
Doesn't really matter whats on it, if people dont come to gigs so you are a viable expense, you have it 'wrong'
One of the best bands I'm in has a BL who picks his blues toons because thats what he wants to play.
He doesn't want the money, often will not take any split, so he pretty much doesn't care for 'rubbish' gigs.
It works on a level that we get nice gigs, is very well regarded, but you have to choose what you take on gigwise.
And all the guys that get asked to play continue to work, so although not perfect and certainly not populist, continue to be available.
Happened to me with Abracadabra by Steve Miller Band. I was pro, guys were contra. I've persuaded them to try it just once. Well, I've almost never seen a crowd filling dancefloor that fast.
