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Setting knobs to "flat" definition?

B

BassBob185

Oct 25, 2007
780
1
Rocking Chair
#1
Just curious....I've read a few threads of how people set the knobs on amps and basses.

Whats your definition of setting something flat?

To me it means on my Ibanez SR505 that the knob is set to 6 (midpoint setting) o'clock. You feel a slight bump at this setting sorta a neutral setting.

On my MIA Jazz in means setting the tone is off.

On my GK Backline 210 it means setting the tone knobs to midpoint.

Your definition?
 
#2
BassBob185 said:
Just curious....I've read a few threads of how people set the knobs on amps and basses.

Whats your definition of setting something flat?

To me it means on my Ibanez SR505 that the knob is set to 6 (midpoint setting) o'clock. You feel a slight bump at this setting sorta a neutral setting.

On my MIA Jazz in means setting the tone is off.

On my GK Backline 210 it means setting the tone knobs to midpoint.

Your definition?
Click to expand...

I think your definitions are pretty much on point. Some people refer to the amp settings as "12 o'clock".

Permit me a quick question about your SR505. I have been considering getting one, played one yesterday. What was it about that bass that made you decide to purchase one, in contrast to your MIA Jazz?
 
#3
I wanted a 5 string but wanted a slim neck. The Ibanez has one of the slimmest necks for a 5 string. I like the overall weight and balance. The tone is very different and works for most styles of music although I don't think it sounds as good as the Jazz on country music.

Quality wise the SR505 is great, stays in tune and only needs minor set up changes a few times a year when seasons change. I do set ups myself so its no big deal. Ithe Ibanez comes with Elixers which sound really nice on the bass.
 
#4
I generally set the knobs to flat on my Peavey amps, and do the tone shaping from the EQ & Tech 21 BDDI on my pedal board.

That works out nicely because Peavey's don't really color the tone much. They're like big, reliable power amps. The biggest factor aside from my settings are which cabs the amp is plugged into. 2x12,4x10,2x10,1x15, 1x5 with a horn, they all sound different enough that my wife can hear the difference. She's not a bassist but she is a great musician.
 
#5
I don't know if this helps, but I do the same thing with my Ampeg B100R. The knobs all go to 10, so I set tham ALL on 5 for what I think is a "flat" EQ setting. Sounds great!

I wish my amp went to 11!!
 
#6
+1, you've pretty much nailed it on "flat settings," I think.

BassBob185 said:
I wanted a 5 string but wanted a slim neck. The Ibanez has one of the slimmest necks for a 5 string. I like the overall weight and balance. The tone is very different and works for most styles of music although I don't think it sounds as good as the Jazz on country music.

Quality wise the SR505 is great, stays in tune and only needs minor set up changes a few times a year when seasons change. I do set ups myself so its no big deal. Ithe Ibanez comes with Elixers which sound really nice on the bass.
Click to expand...

dhagler, I definitely agree with BassBob185.

I just picked up an SR535 a couple weeks ago. I wasn't even really in the market for another bass, but played one and fell in love with it instantly. Like he said, the neck is smooth, thin and fast and I really dig the warm sound of the Barts with the mahogany body. I was also happily surprised with the B string... I've always been a believer in 35" scale for 5+ strings (can't STAND a floppy B), but the low B on the SR535 is surprisingly solid feeling.

I would imagine that the rest of the SR series holds a lot (if not all) of the same qualities and I wouldn't have a problem buying another SR in the future...
*cough* SR706 *cough* :D lol

5sg.
 
#7
Seems as if people generally agree that a flat setting the the amps would be 12 o'clock or midpoint.

I am curious to know if those with passive basses consider a flat setting on the bass to be the tone is off versus mid point or a 6 o'clock setting for an active bass.
 
#8
fivestringgecko said:
+1, you've pretty much nailed it on "flat settings," I think.

I was also happily surprised with the B string... I've always been a believer in 35" scale for 5+ strings (can't STAND a floppy B), but the low B on the SR535 is surprisingly solid feeling.


*cough* SR706 *cough* :D lol

5sg.
Click to expand...

+1 on the B string. Not sloppy at all. It is a fast playing bass if you like to zip around the fretboard. Highly recommended.
 
#10
"Flat" on an instrument can be a slippery critter to get hold of. To me, "flat" means no EQ applied to the output. Since nearly every preamp (separate or built into an amp head) has some sort of coloration bias due to the designers' intent, determining how your bass sounds with NO EQ can be tricky.

I listen to my instruments through some good AKG studio headphones and a decent mixing board, interested to know and remember the basic sound of all of my basses with their controls making the least change in the tone.

Having that sound in mind, I can find something close to it for any given amp or DI situation, and can more quickly and accurately EQ things as desired from my instrument's knobs and my fingers. Yeah, it's also in the ears, not just the fingers, IMHO.



That said, since this question is posted in Basses, here are my humble opinions on "flat" vis a vis instrument knob settings:

On a passive Fender, all tone controls are cut-only, thus tone all the way up and all pickups on full is "flat" on a passive Fender (to me).

I've always felt lowering the volume of a P-bass pickup changes its tone slightly. The blend/mix of Jazz pickups is obviously going to change the tone.

On a Sadowsky pre-amp equipped bass, the preamp has it's own EQ voice. The treble and bass knobs are boost-only on top of that voice, and the "Vintage Tone Control" (VTC) is cut-only for everything. "Flat" is therefore the pre-amp boost on zero, and the VTC open all the way, i.e., no boost and no cut.

Many other on-board preamps offer both cut and boost, so having "flat" in your head for a given instrument will be affected by that as well as onboard preamp voicing/blend at the detent (center) setting.

Furthermore, on-board preamps often offer trim pots or band switches for midrange emphasis, and other features making "flat" on the instrument pretty meaningless.

All IMHO. :cool:
 
#11
Thanks Jim. To add a bit to that, a widely accepted definition to flat is a frequency response with no boost or cut at any frequencies - which may or may not be at the settings people are discussing. Sure isn't there on a Backline 600 - look for fdeck's review for more on that.
 
#12
Great explanation Jim C and others. So for my setup (Jazz with GK amp) flat to you (Jim) is everything full on the Jazz? Thats the opposite of my thinking because flattening the tone on the Jazz to me has always meant tone full off. Which brings about another question. On the Ibanez I have 3 tone knobs, high,mid, and bass tone knobs. Flattening for me would be all knobs in the neutral or mid positions but for you it would be full on correct?
This is a good discussion for me and all of you are providing great insight into how you describe flattening. TBers often write about flattening their sound and it appears all 'flats' are not viewed the same.
 
#13
Thanks for the kind words!

I agree with ihateusersnames that flat means no boost or cut. If you are turning a tone control down on any passive bass, you are cutting some frequencies.

The sense of flat in the above is that the unmodified signal coming from the pickups is flat, i.e., the innate sound of the instrument with a given player, setup, strings, etc.
 
#15
bass_fish said:
flat for me is just the center detent on my amps and basses... so that's flat, no boost and no cut...
Click to expand...


Yes, however anywhere there is a preamp, there is a frequency response curve on it's output at that setting. When you change preamps, it will be different. :D

Obviously, actual sound will vary due to room acoustics, speakers/enclosures, level, etc., no matter what preamp or instrument. :p
 
#16
So Jim, if I understand what you are writing, on a passive Jazz you would have the tone knob full on and the preamp or amp would be where you flatten or boost?

I usually have all 3 knobs on my Jazz full on and flatten or boost the tone via the amp. I don't through a preamp but on occasion play through a Zoom 506 using the B2 setting. I am considering getting a Sadowsky DI Preamp.
Thanks
 
#17
Jim Carr said:
Yes, however anywhere there is a preamp, there is a frequency response curve on it's output at that setting. When you change preamps, it will be different. :D

Obviously, actual sound will vary due to room acoustics, speakers/enclosures, level, etc., no matter what preamp or instrument. :p
Click to expand...

yeah but different capacitors and even internal wires and cables can change your sound and (as you pointed out) rooms, amps, speakers etc will/can change the sound as well... so what's the definition of flat anyway...

for me center detent is flat... well for that specific amp/bass/preamp anyway, and for basses without preamps: all full on...
 
#18
BassBob185 said:
So Jim, if I understand what you are writing, on a passive Jazz you would have the tone knob full on and the preamp or amp would be where you flatten or boost?...
Click to expand...

Concerning the amp/preamp settings, it is actually there where "flat" matters more to me.

Here is why: With the bass set to the "least modified output," and knowing the "flat sound of the bass," I can set the amp/preamp to as close to that sound as possible. Then I adjust the EQ on the instrument to get the tone I want.

I am then free to avoid all tone twiddling on the amp--well pretty much, especially on an active bass. Crowd size changes and repertoire may dictate changes. :D :D :D

bass_fish said:
...for me, center detent is flat...
Click to expand...

For active instruments, that makes sense--"flat" is simply the "least modified" output of the bass. In practice, I don't use that setting on active or passive basses all that often, except as a bench mark, see above. :cool:
 
#20
Keep in mind that even on amps, tone controls aren't always symmetrical about their midpoints in terms of cut vs. boost. A great example of this is the original Fender 3-knob eq (as found on many classic amps). The bass and treble knobs are boost-only, and the mid is cut-only. That means that for flat response (or as close as it gets), you'd have the bass & treble knobs down all the way (or nearly so), and the mid knob dimed! Setting each of the knobs at the midpoint would give you a serious midrange scoop. See the plots below, made by Duncan Munro's Tone Stack Calculator. The TSC is a fun little GED (geek entertainment device) for experimenting with tone control designs. It can be downloaded for free here.

Controls all at mid-point:

2726017163_0bdfb6ec36_o.jpg


Controls set for flat response:

2726842074_04bf053607_o.jpg
 

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