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Shim neck or not? - need opinions on that.

fendersurfer

fendersurfer

Guest
Apr 10, 2013
80
1
#1
Hi everybody,
hope to find some help here.
I have the 60th Anniversary Precision Bass, a American Standard in most parts.
Now I love the way it plays, but sense that there is some room to get the string height even lower.

You see on the picture, that my saddles are quite low, nearly bottomed out. Maybe a creditcard under the E-string saddle, a little more on the others. Screws sticking out a bit as you see.
On pictures I 99% see bridges with higher setup, screws not sticking out.
My strings are parallel to the body surface. I guess on most basses the strings are higher towards the bridge.

Three ways to solve my concerns:
1) Leave the bass at it is cause it plays great and shimming would risk this setup.
2) Cut or change the screws that poke my hand and leave the string height as it is.
3) Shim the neck and get higher string saddles and the screws to stick out more to the bottom than to the hand. Which means, setting everything up from scratch.

Thanks for your ideas "shimming the neck or not".
I appreciate every tip you got.
 

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#4
Deal with the bridge or saddles ....shimming the neck is for changing the pitch of the neck not compensatiting for bridge hardware....in this case you're talking about a large square shim that doesn't change neck pitch, just raises the neck ....nah, woouldn't be my first fix ....i'd replace saddles or bridge or both
 
#5
I'd shim the neck at the body end of the pocket and raise the back end of the neck up a bit. It shouldn't take much to get it just right. From the picture of the bridge I'd probably start with 1 business card thickness and be prepared to go to 2. In fact, business cards are exactly what I use when I shim a neck. I must have seven or eight boxes of 500 from old bands...
 
#6
I've shimmed the neck on several of my basses. It's not a big deal, and you don't have to change parts on the bridge. Of course, you have to set the bridge saddle height after you shim. If you like the current height, measure it at the top fret with a feeler gauge before you take the neck off.

Just read up on how to shim a neck. Gary Willis's 101 Tips book has a good explanation of this and other setup techniques.
 
#8
Nothing wrong with shimming. Fender routinely sent basses out of the factory with matchbook-cover thickness shims at the body end of the neck pocket. It gets the job done and, IME, doesn't affect the sound of the bass. YMMV.

There are more graceful ways of shimming (using wood, tapered shims, etc...) but I don't think it really has any effect on the overall result, which is to set the neck angle someplace where you can adjust the bridge to your liking.
 
#10
TigerInATrance said:
I'd shim the neck at the body end of the pocket and raise the back end of the neck up a bit. It shouldn't take much to get it just right. From the picture of the bridge I'd probably start with 1 business card thickness and be prepared to go to 2. In fact, business cards are exactly what I use when I shim a neck. I must have seven or eight boxes of 500 from old bands...
Click to expand...

I second that. I actually did the reverse and lowered the saddle.
If you are happy with the current setup you could also get a saddle cover (ashtray). That would protect your hand from the screws.
 
#11
Few things - You are with in spec regarding your bridge. If you decide to shim your neck pock, use a businescard cut to fit the entire pocket. If you shim the butt end of the pocket or the top side, you will knock out your geometry. If this walked into my shop for repair, I'd say leave it as-is..
 
#13
If the screws are your only concern, take one out, take it to your local Hardware store, buy some shorter screws. And SAVE the old ones.

I've also shimmed several of my basses, you could go that route if you want.
 
#14
The low, almost bottomed out saddles are my main concern.
Makes me think I picked up a b-stock instrument. Especially when thinking about a shim, as IMO it's "repair" which you normally don't need on a new and quite expensive instrument. :-/
 
#15
I'm not a big fan of shimming, though I realize it has its purpose and is sometimes the only solution.

My order of operations for improving action and getting the saddles up off the bridge plate is as follows:

1. Check the nut slots. Shallow nut slots contribute to higher action, no matter what else you do to the bass.

2. Experiment with the relief. Less relief can assist in achieving lower action. Fender bolt-on necks sometimes have a little ski jump at around the 15th-16th fret. Taking out some relief (flatter fretboard) can sometimes minimize this ski jump. If the ski jump is very pronounced, the only cure is removal of frets, re-plane the board, re-install frets.

3. Fret leveling. If you have a high fret, or uneven frets, you'll have a heck of a time getting the action low, even if you do Steps 1 and 2 above.

4. After everything above has been addressed and you still can't get the action low without bottoming out your saddles, time to start experimenting with shims.

That's my approach. I realize some people who have had good results with shimming get to Step Four much sooner, and it's a personal choice. I try to wait until I've exhausted other potential solutions, and I believe even if you do shim, Steps 1-3 should be addressed anyway, so you may as well start with those.
 
#17
fendersurfer said:
The low, almost bottomed out saddles are my main concern.
Makes me think I picked up a b-stock instrument. Especially when thinking about a shim, as IMO it's "repair" which you normally don't need on a new and quite expensive instrument. :-/
Click to expand...

Shimming is no different than any other adjustment to the geometry of the guitar. Like raising and lowering saddles or adjusting the nut slot depths are adjustments, not repairs. It is not indicative of a damaged or B-stock goods.

No one can venture an accurate diagnosis of this instrument by examining the photos. There is no hard data. Please measure the string height at the twelfth and last frets, bass and treble sides respectively. In the USA, a ruler graduated in 1/64" is used. Millimeters are the standard elsewhere. Also measure the relief at the seventh or eighth fret using feeler gauges depending using a straight edge or capo. In the USA they are graduated in thousandths of an inch. Post the findings and someone will help you.
 
#18
On the pictures I wanted to show the low saddles and sticking out screws.

I measures the neck bow, it was good. Spot on Fender spec.
The string height was 2,7mm on E and 2,2mm on G. That is 0,106 inch and 0,086 inch.
 
#19
Please note that the base plate on your newer style bridge is thicker than on the classic older style bent metal Fender bridges.

When Fender manufactured that bass, they may have kept the standard specs for the depth of the neck pocket rout and installed the beefier bridge, which would account for the saddles almost bottoming out on the base plate.

If you wanted to replace the saddle screws, good chance your local hardware store will not have them. McMaster Carr has a good selection of tiny Allen set screws in both standard and metric.

I personally have no problem shimming a neck. My first option is to use veneer (I have a small box full of small different thickness pieces on hand). There's always brass shim stock too, which is readily available. I like to have something with a bit more density than paper if possible to help create a harder connection between the neck and body.

But I've used paper before and it works.

This type of issue is a time honored tradition passed down from Leo Fender. On the earliest G&L basses, they kept the neck pocket routs the same depth for both the fretted and fretless models, and the saddle screws on the fretless basses typically bottom out on the bridge plate if the adjustable neck tilt feature is not put to use.
 

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