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Shock when going direct...grounding issue?

At the normally low [DEL]DC[/DEL] offsets involved between two separate grounding points, the current will only flow through your body if you are offering a [DEL]better[/DEL] path to equalize the potential, which means you need to be touching *two* different "ground" sources. The metal parts of your bass will be one, and the other could be a microphone or the stage itself.

Just in case, I always recommend rubber-soled shoes to block current from flowing from your instrument to the floor. If you are isolated from Earth ground with rubber-soled shoes, you should not be able to get a "shock" by touching only your instrument. Now, of course, if you simultaneously touch something else (like a microphone) then all bets are off again.

I have been shocked by a ground-differential like this before, so it's definitely possible. In my case, I rested my right hand on the metal case of a piece of equipment which was connected to an old two-prong electrical circuit (where the neutral is grounded at the panel in the unit), and with my left hand I grabbed a coax cable from the wall (which was grounded across the street at the cable utility pole). At that point, my body was the best path to equalize those two different potentials. Zap. Very uncool and unpleasant. I had to get a coax ground isolator to fix the problem. I used a cheap one which doesn't have the balanced transformers, and so I had some signal loss as a result.

In any case, I completely agree with the ground isolator solution. If that fixes the problem, you're all set.

Of course, it's also a remote possibility that the shock you got is due to a reversed neutral, which is very dangerous and has caused fatal electrocution on stages before. I say remote because most outdoor circuits since the 1970s have been required to be set up on GFCIs, most of which won't operate at all on a reversed-neutral (and would have tripped anyway in your case). But if ANY of those outlets supplying your interconnected gear are without GFCI protection, then you really should watch out and test those outlets for reversed neutrals just to be safe. The testers are cheap and available at any hardware store.
 
Make sure you're not standing in a puddle. Our guitarist once spent an entire practice getting shocked by every single one of his guitars. He was wearing just socks on his feet and when I suggested he put shoes on to ground him he gave me a death state. Turns out his socks were wet and that's why he was getting shocked.
 
At the normally low DC offsets involved between two separate grounding points, the current will only flow through your body if you are offering a better path to equalize the potential, which means you need to be touching *two* different "ground" sources.

The voltage differential between grounds is AC, not DC. It's caused by two phenomena: the "transformer effect" where the ground conductor in AC wiring is exposed more to the magnetic field of one leg--either the hot or the neutral--than the other; and internal leakage current (typically through power transformer) to the chassis.

It's a common but incorrect myth that current flows only through the "best" or least resistance path; current flows in proportion to the conductance, so more current will flow when resistance is lesser and less will flow through greater resistance, but it will still flow.
 
True, but the strings are still grounded - so I don't think using active EMGs would make any difference...


- georgestrings

cutting the string ground wire makes the difference!
That means the ground wire that is connected to the bridge.

All kinds of passive pickups need the string grounding to provide a noise shielding.
That is the reason why all kinds of passive pickup guitars come with a string grounding.
However for most of all the 9V driven pickups the "string" shielding may be obsolete, thus the grounding of strings.
 
At the normally low DC offsets involved between two separate grounding points, the current will only flow through your body if you are offering a better path to equalize the potential, which means you need to be touching *two* different "ground" sources. The metal parts of your bass will be one, and the other could be a microphone or the stage itself.
The voltage differential between grounds is AC, not DC. It's caused by two phenomena: the "transformer effect" where the ground conductor in AC wiring is exposed more to the magnetic field of one leg--either the hot or the neutral--than the other; and internal leakage current (typically through power transformer) to the chassis.

It's a common but incorrect myth that current flows only through the "best" or least resistance path; current flows in proportion to the conductance, so more current will flow when resistance is greater and less will flow through greater resistance, but it will still flow.

Oops, agreed. If you remove the words "DC" and "better" from my post above, I think your criticism is addressed in full. Sorry for the confusion.
 
You have to clip the ground on the mic cable that you use between your amp and the mixer. Make sure you mark that cord and use it for your direct signal only. That's the quick and dirty way to do a ground lift.

And if you do this, I practically guarantee that sooner or later you will use the cable for something it's no longer appropriate for. Stuff happens, and I've been around too long not to assume that something like this won't happen. Maybe if I could paint the cable red to identify it...but even then I'd want it labeled so no one else would borrow it.

Don't mess up equipment like this. Use the correct tool for the job, and make sure it can't be mistaken.

I carry an outlet testing tool and use it when there is any indication of a problem.

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And if you do this, I practically guarantee that sooner or later you will use the cable for something it's no longer appropriate for. Stuff happens, and I've been around too long not to assume that something like this won't happen. Maybe if I could paint the cable red to identify it...but even then I'd want it labeled so no one else would borrow it.

Don't mess up equipment like this. Use the correct tool for the job, and make sure it can't be mistaken.


I carry an outlet testing tool and use it when there is any indication of a problem.

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But won't show a potential voltage between the grounds of the circuits tested (or a ground loop).
 
OK.... I think there is some bad info "floating" around here....

Facts as I understand them......

1) you got some form of shock from your amp. Almost certainly a "leakage" current shock.

2) This went away after you disconnected the wire going to the board.

Given that.... two things are apparently true.

1) For some reason your amp was NOT grounded. This could easily be due to the local wiring, and may not be an amp problem.

2) the board, or at the very least, the wire to it, was also not grounded. again, might easily be the farm wiring. (I know a thing or two about farm wiring, not much of it good)

If your amp was grounded, then any leakage from it, or from anything plugged into it, would have gone to ground, and you *could not* have gotten a shock.

If the board was grounded, or at least if the wire to it was grounded, then IT *could not* have caused any shock when plugged-into your amp. In fact if it WERE grounded, it might have grounded your amp and should have cured , rather than caused, your problem.

A ground lift is not a bad idea in general, but NOT a good solution to shocks, usually you want the opposite of a ground lift to cure shocks.... you want to ground the offending item.

If this is the only place you get this problem, I'd suspect the farm wiring.

That goes double when the board seems to have also been ungrounded.... the wire must have been grounded to the board, wires don't typically pick up that sort of charge from just laying around.

If you have access to any sort of ohm-meter, you can check by measuring resistance from the ground prong on the cord plug, to some bare metal on the chassis (with cord not plugged-in, of course). Should read basically zero ohms. If so, you are likely good. Shake the cord around as you measure, just to make sure it isn't in the one position that still works....

If you don't get a low resistance, nearly zero, double check by measuring between two spots on the chassis.... should read basically zero. If the cord is high resistance and two spots on chassis are low resistance, the cord is bad.... then you know what to do, right?