Short-scale basses are no substitute for long-scale basses?

[WI Short Scaler]

Can I make almost any bass work on a gig? You bet I can. If you need to play short scale basses for ergonomic and health reasons, and can’t get the sound you need for your band(s), I would look at your amp and cabinet(s), not the bass.

This sounds like great advice!

After cervical spine surgery I was fortunate to have my benevolent guitar player friend loan me his Hofner violin bass. That is a bass I have zero interest in under normal times but the lightweight was a godsend during recovery. I had to play with my amp alot to get a tone I liked with it. Just think it shows EVERY bass is a different beast regardless of scale.

 

[wiscoaster]

...In a live band situation, you cannot distinguish a short scale bass from a long scale bass.

Bill Wyman would agree with that.

 

[Bluesrock]

Bill Wyman would agree with that.

My first bass was an Olympic white Fender Musicmaster. I was so naïve then that I didn’t know the neck was short scale. I just wanted to play bass and the price was right. Anyway, that Musicmaster and a Peavey 400 amp served me well for a few years, and audiences never knew the difference.

 

[zubrycky]

IMHO (and personal experience), nothing is better to old shoulders than a Danelectro. That basses are almost weightless.

 

[wiscoaster]

IMHO (and personal experience), nothing is better to old shoulders than a Danelectro. That basses are almost weightless.

... and very cool.

 

[MustangWally]

I've switched from flatwounds to GHS Pressurewounds on the Muruszczyk and my Mustang and it really made them come alive.

Same strings on my Mustang PJ - killer tone, I could not ask for anything more. I used to play 34" and I contend that my 30" Mustang gives away nothing in terms of tone and is in fact better than my 34"ers ever were.

 

[SamanthaCay]

Popcorn! Everywhere is delicious popcorn!

Everything is a variable in our sound, even the popcorn we choose.

To say ss is this or that specifically, is to ignore the whole.

 

[shoulderpet]

This sounds like great advice!

After cervical spine surgery I was fortunate to have my benevolent guitar player friend loan me his Hofner violin bass. That is a bass I have zero interest in under normal times but the lightweight was a godsend during recovery. I had to play with my amp alot to get a tone I liked with it. Just think it shows EVERY bass is a different beast regardless of scale.

Those Hofner basses are lovely to play, only reason mine is not my main bass is that tonally it very much has a baked in tone which doesn't work for everything

 

[Joe Nerve]

Must be the flatwounds .

My short scales all sound just as good as my long scales, and I own LOTS of both, in all price ranges.






I (or someone else) really need to make a recording asking people to pick the long scales from the short scales. Sorry, but I believe its all in our minds, not our ears. These threads amuse me.

 

[shoulderpet]

Just to add some more food for thought I think a large part of the reason short scale basses have a lot of misconceptions surrounding there tone is down to the short scale basses of the 60s and 70s.

When you look at what was around back then there was the Gibson EB0, Gibson EB1, Hofner Violin and Club bass, the you had the cheapo japanese copies etc, none of those are bad basses apart from maybe the cheap copies mentioned but all are geared towards a darker, muddier tone and are specifically designed to sound that way, we have way more choice with the short scale basses that are in production today

 

[mb94952]

I know Stanley Clarke plays a 30.75" Alembic and he sounds just like a long scale Alembic, only it's Stanley at the wheel !

 

[JW56789]

Sure, a longer scale bass will have a longer speaking length and be a bit 'bassier'.

BUT: If for whatever reason, it's 2 Big, 2 Heavy, 2 Uncomfortable, you may very well play better on a medium or short scale bass, and that's the important part.

One of my Alembic 5 strings was in their classic, point shape in long scale. I'm six one, wear a 44 long jacket, and it was a LONG way down to play in the 'no money above the fifth fret' area at the nut. I could handle it, but another inch longer and it would have been really problematic.

The ergonomic part of this, the human/instrument interface, is way overlooked in guitar-shaped instruments . . . until it dawns on you that this or that axe, great as it may be, just doesn't 'fit' you, aside from tone, etc.

I'm all about playing what works for you, whatever that is, and axes, pickups, and amps are way past good enough for the old wives tales about short-scale basses don't make enough bass. So if a shorty lets you play your best, have at it.

 

[Phil508]

My SG sounds every bit as good as a long scale bass. That being said my Fender does not sound like my Ric (then again most of my long scale basses have their own sound), both long scale.

 

[mb94952]

Sure, a longer scale bass will have a longer speaking length and be a bit 'bassier'.

BUT: If for whatever reason, it's 2 Big, 2 Heavy, 2 Uncomfortable, you may very well play better on a medium or short scale bass, and that's the important part.

One of my Alembic 5 strings was in their classic, point shape in long scale. I'm six one, wear a 44 long jacket, and it was a LONG way down to play in the 'no money above the fifth fret' area at the nut. I could handle it, but another inch longer and it would have been really problematic.

The ergonomic part of this, the human/instrument interface, is way overlooked in guitar-shaped instruments . . . until it dawns on you that this or that axe, great as it may be, just doesn't 'fit' you, aside from tone, etc.

I'm all about playing what works for you, whatever that is, and axes, pickups, and amps are way past good enough for the old wives tales about short-scale basses don't make enough bass. So if a shorty lets you play your best, have at it.

Interesting stuff. What's your opinion on the Torzal Natural Twist Bass ? Maybe the OP would like to look into that as well ?
This one has interchangeable necks

Here's another one with the Bass Whisperer Ed

 

[sunbeast]

Well, wider nut width and 2 fewer frets does come to mind.



You would need thinner gauge strings, cause despite the tension being lower on the shorter scale the strings will also be accordingly less flexible, due to the shorter vibrating length, resulting in a thuddy dead kind of tone as you approach the upper frets on the thickest strings if you use too thick gauge strings.

The correct approach if you want great tone on your short scale is to go thinner gauge strings and instead adjust your plucking technique to the lower string tension.

Personally I prefer a gauge .095 to .040 roundwound string set on a 30" scale bass.

No one says you absolutely have to pull the hell out of the strings when you plug them, just pluck and fret lighter and the strings won't be too floppy and it'll sound great.



Terrible advice, in my opinion, for above reasons.

In fact in my experience the opposite is true.

Thicker gauge strings might make a short scale feel similar to a regular long scale bass to play, but it will result in a tone with not a lot of harmonic content, which might appear boomy, dull and muddy, compared to a long scale bass, due to the decreased flexibility (as stated above caused by the shorter vibrating length).

Thinner gauge strings, to accommodate the shorter vibrating length of the strings, as in increased inflexibility, and adjusting your plucking technique to accommodate the lesser tension is the key to make your short scale bass sound more like a long scale in my personal experience.


The reason why a typical guitar string set or baritone guitar string set for that matter will have much lower tension than a typical bass string set, tuned to common tuning for the respective instruments, without feeling floppy.

+1 to this post. Trying to make a short-scale sound like a long-scale is in reality going to be a bit of an experiment when it comes to strings, pickups and playing technique as there are a number of different variables involved that fundamentally change the tone. When using the same pickups in the same relative positions (compensated to the shorter scale) on a short-scale as a long-scale they are already picking up a relatively wider part of the harmonic collection of each string (same magnetic field but with the relative harmonics squished together closer on the short-scale) resulting in a relatively thicker (and potentially muddy) tone- its similar to the difference in tone/focus between a P and J pickup but in this case a result of shorter string length rather than thinner vs wider sensing coil. Using thicker strings actually compounds this, as more string windings means even more additional harmonic content. The best way to emulate a long-scale in my experience is lighter strings and/or more focused pickups (relatively thinner coils and/or more focused magnetic field- I really like using Strat-sized coils on a shorty like a Bass VI, and the original Mustang pickups are more focused than a P as well). Of course learning how to play with more control is also important with the lighter tension, as wider string excursion from digging in on the lighter gauge strings can also saturate the pickups differently and again change the tone and dynamics.

Consider moving pickups back closer to the bridge on a shorty to tighten the tone up (the Stingray shortys are great because of the pickup location IMO- not necessarily at sounding like a long-scale Stingray, but just at having a more tight and focused tone that can get a bit more of a full-scale vibe than positioning pickups closer to the neck). Active electronics can help focus the tone too (one of the many aspects of Alembic shortys that make them sound so good IMO)

 

[JW56789]

I once worked for a company when Lace was trying to market that 'twisted' bass and they were looking for a ghost builder to make them. We couldn't make them repeatably in spec, though admittedly this was a prototype stage, without big CAD/CAM or CNC.

The difficulties involved with set-up, etc., are huge, and it was obvious that after-sales service was going to be a mountain to climb. Imagine taking that to even a hugely-accomplished and skilled professional repairman and telling him it needs a setup. Shoot a vid when you hand it to him . . . .

The only future for it would be in carbon-fibre as a boutique build, as if you get any of the usual flex or twist from even the best wooden necks, you're in trouble fast. This is one of those things that seems like a good idea, and on paper it is. Out in the real world living with one six nights a week, I just can't see it, and all the majors have passed on it, as the upside is way smaller than the downsides in a business sense.

It's another case where you could re-invent the wheel, but decide the wheel rolls fine just like it is.

 

[zubrycky]

A good example of how the same bassist can sound very different with basses with different scales is Jack Bruce. Compare his short scale Gibson tone and his 34" Warwick fretless bass tone.

 

[Bassamatic]

As my fingers get tired and old, I find I am playing my shorties more and more. My Mustang P/J with flats sounds so close to my USA P with flats that you cannot hear a difference when playing out. Period. At the moment, the bass with the "best" sound that I have is an Ibanez miKro - 28.5" scale.

With short scale basses, properly designed strings are REALLY important. You can't just take long scale strings and cut them down. Strings are wound at tension, and when you put longs in a shorty they never reach their design tension and are muddy. The T.I.s and Pressurewounds are really good.

 

[sleddogn]

. All stringed with flatwounds.

.

Strung

 

[wiscoaster]

... I've switched from flatwounds to GHS Pressurewounds on the Muruszczyk and my Mustang and it really made them come alive.

I tried to find these online and could only find them in long scale. Do they still make them in short scale? Where did you get yours? Thanks ....