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Short-scale basses are no substitute for long-scale basses?
- Thread starter wiscoaster
- Start date
you're missing the point.Basses tuned in D Standard (DGCF) are no substitute for basses tuned in E Standard (EADG)
For all practical purposes, a long scale bass tuned dgcf with a capo on 2nd fret is a short scale bass tuned E standard. There is no physical difference.
My Bronco w/flats sounds more "like a P" than my P w/flats does. My P w/flats sounds like what you'd expect a Gibson Ripper to sound like. MY HB Shorty w/rounds sounds very Rick-like.
They all sound "the same" to 99.9% of the audience. The only people who have ever talked to me about "my sound" were the occasional other bass player.
I would say play what works best for you and your fingers. Unless you drop signal halfway through a song, the audience doesn't give a sh... uhhh... 2 shakes about your sound. Maybe that bass player hiding against the back wall does, but he ain't out there dancing, is he?
This +1 , the biggest difference will be strings, if you go heavier on the gauges a short scale bass will sound very similar to a long scale bass
Nothing boomy about this tone, the bass player uses a short scale Squier Jaguar bass for all of their material
[Youtube]
Well, why do you have flats on 'all' of the shorties? I have basses with lots of different strings because i found what 'suits each bass the best'.
Only my modded Bronco has GHS flats, while the 65 Epiphone Newport (EB0 type but this one is really good) wears GHS Pressurewounds and i get WAY more than enough treble and tight low end WITH EQ adjustments......the Newport gets a 7 db cut at 120 hz and its a dramatically different sound.
Then add the 'enhance' control on my Eden Metro and a lot is possible but the shelving EQ on the Metro is key here imo.
Hmmmm.. I haven't read but part of the first page of this thread, so someone may have said this already.
Why don't more people take a 34" bass, throw a slightly heavier set of strings on it, like 55-75-95-115, drop tune it a whole step to DGCF, and capo it at the 2nd fret? You'd have (I'm guessing) a 30" EADG bass that would possibly sound like a full scale... right?
Why don't more people take a 34" bass, throw a slightly heavier set of strings on it, like 55-75-95-115, drop tune it a whole step to DGCF, and capo it at the 2nd fret? You'd have (I'm guessing) a 30" EADG bass that would possibly sound like a full scale... right?
Well, wider nut width and 2 fewer frets does come to mind.
You would need thinner gauge strings, cause despite the tension being lower on the shorter scale the strings will also be accordingly less flexible, due to the shorter vibrating length, resulting in a thuddy dead kind of tone as you approach the upper frets on the thickest strings if you use too thick gauge strings.
The correct approach if you want great tone on your short scale is to go thinner gauge strings and instead adjust your plucking technique to the lower string tension.
Personally I prefer a gauge .095 to .040 roundwound string set on a 30" scale bass.
No one says you absolutely have to pull the hell out of the strings when you plug them, just pluck and fret lighter and the strings won't be too floppy and it'll sound great.
Terrible advice, in my opinion, for above reasons.
In fact in my experience the opposite is true.
Thicker gauge strings might make a short scale feel similar to a regular long scale bass to play, but it will result in a tone with not a lot of harmonic content, which might appear boomy, dull and muddy, compared to a long scale bass, due to the decreased flexibility (as stated above caused by the shorter vibrating length).
Thinner gauge strings, to accommodate the shorter vibrating length of the strings, as in increased inflexibility, and adjusting your plucking technique to accommodate the lesser tension is the key to make your short scale bass sound more like a long scale in my personal experience.
The reason why a typical guitar string set or baritone guitar string set for that matter will have much lower tension than a typical bass string set, tuned to common tuning for the respective instruments, without feeling floppy.
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Neither nut width nor number of frets are attributes of a short scale bass or have any influence on tone, which is what's discussed here.
Yes, and no. Like all things, it's complicated, and depends on how close you look/hear.
While the capo trick does, indeed, simulate a short scale bass, there is one very slight bugaboo: intonation. Assuming the DGCF is properly intonated, when you capo it it to EADG, the intonation is a tiny bit "off.". Your harmonics wouldn't be directly over a fret, they'd be a tiny distance "off."
Most of the time, this is not an issue, as very few people would be able to hear that. I know I can't. Ya know that "wahwahwah" effect when you're tuning by string, and you're close, and the longer the wah, the closer the tuning is? Is a 3 minute "wah" good enough?
I was doing this with my 35" 5 string MTD Z5 before I sold it and also playing it E-C and putting a capo at the 4th fret. I honestly can't remember the string gauges that were on there.
I loved it. For me I actually thought it improved the tone significantly. Not necessarily because the short scale but because I think it moved the pickups into a much better position for my tonal preferences. So there is that to consider if doing this experiment.
I still kind of wish I kept that bass and just got a new neck made for it in short scale. Would have also had to modify the body to keep it 24 frets or even 22. Also would have had to do something about the fret markers on the side of the neck. Figured at that point it would be better to just buy a 5 string short scale. Problem is there are just not enough of them in the price range I am willing to spend right now.
Just food for thought. Not at a lot of physical difference but there is some.
Birdsong basses are designed to use longscale strings, i use longscale strings on the gibsons as well.
I've been playing both a long time, and, like everyone else, I have heard a multitude of bassists, and I don't notice the difference if both are played well.
Plus, no one has ever noticed or cared what the scale of my bass is. Not being arrogant, just my 2 cents because I play both long and short scale basses. It's just the physical adjustment that is noticeable to me.
Plus, no one has ever noticed or cared what the scale of my bass is. Not being arrogant, just my 2 cents because I play both long and short scale basses. It's just the physical adjustment that is noticeable to me.
Good points! I personally don’t play heavier strings now, and I don’t pluck with a heavy hand. I have low tension flats, TI J flats, or light gauge sets on all my main basses now, with very little neck relief and low action.
But, I did go heavier when I drop tuned years ago to keep tensions the same as standard tuning w/ normal gauges.
Wiscoaster,
I believe it is not easy to make a clear comparison between the scales (sometimes even basses with the specs can sound different, right?), but what you are experiencing in terms of what you hear or what you feel is the most important here. If you feel like the short-scale is not giving you the same taste you are having from your PJ, that is it, case closed!
So rather than making a comment on the substitutability of long scales in favor of short scales, I can give you my two cents based on my experience from a similar situation (I also have mild arthritis in my thumbs). Please discard the rest of the message, if you feel like I am getting away from the topic; and I apologize for it.
- After suffering a bit from this situation myself, I changed my left-hand technique a bit. Unless I feel totally comfortable, I avoid wide stretches and I try to play with more of a double-bass technique with less use of the third finger. With less stretch, less force is applied on my thumb and that way less pain, actually almost none. And apart from my 33" Foderas, I still play my Jazz Bass and Precision with minimum issues.
- In NY, I went to Edna Golandsky to see her approach using the Taubman principles applied to string players. Any Internet search would give you better idea about techniques like the Alexander or Taubman, but it is important to understand these approaches for a comfortable playing experience. The bottom line in Edna's approach (of course, it is much more complex than this) was to use a technique more compliant with our natural anatomical posture; and she also told me to avoid any unnecessary stretching exercises that would put more strain on the fingers. She rather asked me to warm up on the instrument just playing very mildly and increasing the difficulty level gradually to the point where it becomes uncomfortable. So she told me not to push it hard at all, which makes sense, but hearing it from a pro classical player was more convincing.
- Lastly, they might sound different but short-scale basses are great in themselves! I used to have a Mustang from 1969 which was an amazing bass! I am sorry that I sold it, but it has a totally different feel and sounds great. Is it a Precision? No way. But it is a beautiful instrument. And for me, my health is more important than the sound of the bass. I would not hesitate to switch to a short scale, if I could not play the standard lenghts.
Again, I apologize if this is quite off the topic, but just wanted to share...
Cheers,
Alper
I believe it is not easy to make a clear comparison between the scales (sometimes even basses with the specs can sound different, right?), but what you are experiencing in terms of what you hear or what you feel is the most important here. If you feel like the short-scale is not giving you the same taste you are having from your PJ, that is it, case closed!
So rather than making a comment on the substitutability of long scales in favor of short scales, I can give you my two cents based on my experience from a similar situation (I also have mild arthritis in my thumbs). Please discard the rest of the message, if you feel like I am getting away from the topic; and I apologize for it.
- After suffering a bit from this situation myself, I changed my left-hand technique a bit. Unless I feel totally comfortable, I avoid wide stretches and I try to play with more of a double-bass technique with less use of the third finger. With less stretch, less force is applied on my thumb and that way less pain, actually almost none. And apart from my 33" Foderas, I still play my Jazz Bass and Precision with minimum issues.
- In NY, I went to Edna Golandsky to see her approach using the Taubman principles applied to string players. Any Internet search would give you better idea about techniques like the Alexander or Taubman, but it is important to understand these approaches for a comfortable playing experience. The bottom line in Edna's approach (of course, it is much more complex than this) was to use a technique more compliant with our natural anatomical posture; and she also told me to avoid any unnecessary stretching exercises that would put more strain on the fingers. She rather asked me to warm up on the instrument just playing very mildly and increasing the difficulty level gradually to the point where it becomes uncomfortable. So she told me not to push it hard at all, which makes sense, but hearing it from a pro classical player was more convincing.
- Lastly, they might sound different but short-scale basses are great in themselves! I used to have a Mustang from 1969 which was an amazing bass! I am sorry that I sold it, but it has a totally different feel and sounds great. Is it a Precision? No way. But it is a beautiful instrument. And for me, my health is more important than the sound of the bass. I would not hesitate to switch to a short scale, if I could not play the standard lenghts.
Again, I apologize if this is quite off the topic, but just wanted to share...
Cheers,
Alper
