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Shotgun Question

#61
Embryodead said:
nope not trolling, that was my input on the whole subject ;-p i sigh at the fact that in america shotguns are now considered home protection. I'm not getting political like asked but i had to state my sigh and allow people to assume that i think this is such a silly topic :)
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I thought they were always considered home protection :confused: If I trusted my powers of negotiation, I might try that on home invader..............but I don't, so I wont :D
 
#62
A few points from someone who was in the firearms business (including police supply class III weapons) for several years:

1) DO NOT buy a pistol grip only shotgun ( I doubt you can in CA anyway) they are tough to hold and a 12 ga. round could break your wrist with the recoil. You want a stock that can rest the gun on your shoulder. Shoulders absorb impact much better then a wrist will.

2) A 20 ga. is sufficient and their are plenty of self-defense loads available for one. But a heavy twelve ga. is more then manageable for most petite women with lighter loads.

3) A shotgun at close range will tear someone up. The velocity fall off outside of forty yards is quite dramatic. But a rubber pellet load will knock down a three hundred pound lineman inside of fifteen yards.

4) The three biggest advantages of a shotgun are 1] the racking noise is as good as a doberman bark 2] If you are not using slugs, with shotguns you don't have a ton of penetration so it's not likely that you'll kill someone in the next apartment by accident 3] Shotguns, while I still recommend practice are much more "point and shoot" then a pistol and require less training. Most police shootouts are within seven yards and in most cases the guy who fires first loses. It's not as easy as Hollywood would have you believe to hit something with a pistol at twenty feet. I've seen 20% of the participants of a CCW class MISS COMPLETELY a man sized target at seven yards!

5) Never point a gun at anyone without the will and intentions to use it. Hopefully the gun will be deterrent enough, and in a vast majority of cases it is. Armed private citizens stop far more crime then the police in this country without ever firing a shot.

6) Do not look for "less then lethal" ammo. For the record a lot of police officers carry shotguns loaded with #4 shot, it puts more pellets in the target area then buckshot. If you (God forbid) have to use a firearm you want to stop the assailant, you do not want an assailant returning fire. Also less then lethal injury's have resulted many times in serious lawsuits. A criminal might sue you for "destroying his livelihood" if the injuries sustained prevent him from breaking down doors or climbing thru windows.:D Absurd but it has happened, a dead criminal who was armed on your property when shot is not likely to sue.
 
#64
A cop buddy of mine told me that his department used #4B shot, instead of 00. Theory being that more damage can be done, and you get a larger spread with 27 smaller pellets than 12 large ones. A good choice would be a Remington Model 87 Marine Magnum. Just don't plan on going hunting with it since it's got an 18-inch barrel and a 6-shot magazine. It'd also be pretty low maintenance.
 
#66
BigDaddyRob said:
A cop buddy of mine told me that his department used #4B shot, instead of 00. Theory being that more damage can be done, and you get a larger spread with 27 smaller pellets than 12 large ones. A good choice would be a Remington Model 87 Marine Magnum. Just don't plan on going hunting with it since it's got an 18-inch barrel and a 6-shot magazine. It'd also be pretty low maintenance.
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I believe it but I disagree with the theory and I feel that fewer larger pellets are more effective. My uncle's duty gun was loaded with 00 last time I checked. That was a few years back though.

bc
 
#68
No slugs - you would need to be more accurate, and they can and will travel easily through walls, and through houses.
A 12ga is fine. My 12-year-old can shoot it easily, and he's about 115lbs.
Mossberg and Remington are both good.
I think Remington is a bit better made as far as machning goes, but I'd give the nod to Mossberg for tactical loading.
Speaking of which.......
How would you load it?
I ask because...... I would not keep one unloaded. I would have it ready to shoot. So...there would be no intimidating racking noise - that would just eject an otherwise useful round.
So, unless you want to keep a useless (unloaded) shotgun around, you may have lost half the reason to get a shotgun.
Aim for the ear!
 
#70
Kelly Lee said:
Alright, I gotta jump in here.

On the misconception that a shotgun has a wide spread when it comes to it's pattern. A typical 18" cylinder bore (the bore that will produce the widest pattern) 12ga using 00 buckshot will have an average spread of 8"-10" at 25 yards. The closer the range, the tigher the pattern. What that implies is that a shotgun is not just a "point-n-shoot" kind of weapon. You definately need to train and know your weapon.

It was mentioned earlier that it might be a good idea to use a slug for home defense. I admit that if you hit the bad guy it will be more than enough to stop him. The operative word there is if. In stressful, panic, life and death situations you might not be able to make sure you have the time to aim properly there by reducing your chances of a hit. OK, now you missed but managed to scare him off or hit him with a second shot. Great. Oops, that missed shot went into your neighbors house and killed a 5yo kid. Guess who is now in deep trouble? Slugs are not appropriate for home defense unless you live in the middle of nowhere and live alone IMO. Too much liabilty.

As to wanting to not kill an intruder, if you shoot him, you better hope he dies. If not, be prepared to have a lawsuit brought against you that more than likely the scum bag will win. If you don't believe me, do the research. You will find many instances where this very thing happened when the perp lived. Sad but true.

Also, pump shotguns tend to me more reliable than their auto counterparts for reasons already mentioned (ammo versatility). I would recommend a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500. They are two of the best shotguns out there and both have huge aftermarket support.

To the OP, if you are really serious about learning more, check out and read the info on the following sites as they give a wealth of info that is scientific and/or just practical:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/
Invalid Link Removed
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+1 to all the above, with the following additions....

Or the slug went through your neighbor's house and into the next one, and so on...
You do want to shoot to "stop", but not to kill. But, if Mr Badguy dies, yeah, you are better off legally. The reason I say "shoot to stop" is this... A .22 cal will kill (and is the most lethal round in the country based on number of deaths), however, it may not "stop" Mr Badguy before he gets a few shots off. He'll die later maybe, or maybe not - but he likely won't be stopped. So, shoot to STOP, and that just may be lethal as well.
Aim for the ear.
I like my Remington better than my buddy's Mossy because it feel like a better built tool. However, when it comes to tactical reloading, I kill myself jamming my thumb in the belly of the Remington while the Mossy loads pretty easily from the side. They are both great tools though.
 
#71
DigMe said:
Now? When were they not? :eyebrow:

bc
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I suppose some people might use a firearm as a form of defense, but not me. I don't know about you, but when I run across a bottle of pickles that's closed a little too tight, I head straight for the gun. Buckshot is also great for getting rid of that pesky soapscum that builds up on my shower door.

I love how posting "sigh" is apparently not an effort to inject an irrelevant opinion into this thread. LOVE it.
 
#74
kserg said:
You are right, you really are trying not to be a troll. Said how you feel once, people kinda ignored it, twice, have to jump in 3rd time? If we ignore it again, will there be 4th time?

We understood how you feel about this subject when you posted ::sign::. why come back if you don't like this subject?

Please stop provoking people.
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actually the 2nd time was provoked because i was called a troll. which followed by the 3rd post and now this 4th post to continue to say i'm not a troll.
 
#75
Embryodead said:
nope not trolling, that was my input on the whole subject ;-p i sigh at the fact that in america shotguns are now considered home protection. I'm not getting political like asked but i had to state my sigh and allow people to assume that i think this is such a silly topic :)
Click to expand...


Shotguns have been around for home protection for the better part of a century. In fact, they've been a good all around tool from home protection to a way to bring home the bacon so to speak. They haven't just recently become fashionable as home protection.

Bottom line about what shotgun to get, a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 are great choices since you can change barrels and stocks to make a great defense shotgun. They're very reasonably priced and are plentiful. At close quarters, I use No. 6 bird shot in mine with the modified cylinder choke. Since it's not a hunting shotgun, I've taken the plug out so it holds 4 rounds and one in the pipe IIRC, so I have 5 chances to hit the guy. Even if I pepper the intruder, I can cycle another round quickly for a follow up shot.

Studies show that in most cases just the sound of a firearm action being cycled is enough to make the intruder scram. If that doesn't work, be prepared to go all the way. As was stated earlier, take a firearms training course and practice often with your weapons. Just like practicing with a bass, picking up your firearm will be second nature to you.
 
#78
Burk, Enchanter Tim, and Kelly Lee have both made very strong points here.

I have had an 870 since I was 12, and will never be without it. Two reasons why:

1. I'm a hunter and always will be.

2. My father was the prosecutor of the county I grew up in, and one night when I was 17 (about two weeks before my birthday) two men, one of whom was recently released from jail broke into our house. Before the men were able to get to the 2nd floor of the house, my father had alerted the sheriff and unlocked his 870 from the locker under his bed. He woke me up and put me in the bedroom with my mother. He locked us in and stood on the landing at the top of the stairs. When the men started to come up, my father racked the 870 and said "You've taken enough. You should go." The men left. The police picked them up before they could even get back to their car which they parked down the road. A few days later the sheriff was over, ironically to shoot some clays, and told us we should move the dog pen from the barn to the house, or even let the dogs sleep indoors. Moral of the story? Two weimaraners and a german shepherd would probably have prevented what happened, but better safe than sorry. The next day the dogs started slepping in the house year round.
 

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