Should a fill-in be asked to rehearse

[agreatheight]

I think the trick is to be sure you are getting out of a gig what you need (just like any other gig). I look at sub gigs as helping out other locals cover a gig they'd otherwise need to cancel. It's something I do to be nice, so things have to align for me to sign on.

• $100 minimum
• No rehearsal or paid rehearsal ($25 per hour - I prepare well)
• Song list with good overlap to my catalog (I won't learn more than a few songs for a sub gig)
• Set list must have keys and notes (unless it's a last minute thing, in which I ask keys be called out if different from recordings and I guess / watch on endings)
• Sets run in order - no call outs (so I can use charts)
• I don't play any songs I don't want to

There are always exceptions, but this is the basic list. And I am sure to go over this stuff and come to an understanding before agreeing to a gig. I turn down my fair share of sub gigs stating one of the above, but it should be noted that I have turned down more than a few to have BLs call me a few days later and agree to what I am asking.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I look at every gig from the "Is it worth it?" POV these days. Musicians, many of whom I have no doubt mean well, usually look at a gig as start time and stop time. I don't because I know from experience how much of MY time can be spent in total on a gig. I had a guy who had a $100 gig get upset because when I asked for details they included...

He wanted 4-5 rehearsals
He lives 40+ miles from me

Sorry, can't do it. When he asked what I usually charge he thought I was joking.

I've had another BL offer me another $100 gig, one rehearsal, 8 obscure songs she wanted to do because they were obscure and she liked them. Sorry, $100 does not cover the time it would take for me to shed on those songs. Three hours on a gig, two to three hours shedding, four hours travel, two or so hours at a rehearsal. Plus parking and expenses? For $100?


I try to get setlists ASAP on any gigs I do. Also try to nail down recordings if needed and find out about deviations from those arrangements. I do my homework. That way I'm prepared to play when I hit the stage vs. constantly having to ask questions or look for help. But I'm flexible... the guy I'm playing with tomorrow, the very first time I played with him, half the songs were his originals that I was hearing/playing for the first time on that gig. He got comfortable with the fact that that type of gig didn't scare me. I've seen people freak out on that gig.

When a band I'm asked to sub with asked me to rehearse and the gig is low paying, I ask to be compensated. It just make sense. Only had a couple balk at that. Funny thing, most bands I sub with pay very well, I've usually come from a great referral and if a rehearsal is called it wasn't because of me. I have humored people and each time it was a royal waste of my time. If you can play along with the recording we should be fine. If you can't I'm not the one who needs to practice.

I have no desire to play with a cover band that plays original versions of songs but wants/needs to rehearse.I know some folks are just happy to be out and playing and that's cool... but I'm not one of them. I prefer a different level of musicianship, where you can discuss an arrangement vs. have to play an entire song just to go over a small part of it. If I have to work at that other level, time is money. If you don't look out for yourself, who will? If you don't care, cool. I've seen way too many take advantage of a kind gesture.

 

[Richland123]

The bandleader for the gig I am filling in for this Saturday called me today to send me the final set list. We rehearsed Monday and he said they all thought I did a great job on the songs with most them a one time run through. He commented how nice it was to work with somebody who came in prepared and is professional and knows how to play and knows what they are doing. That was nice to hear.

I told them I am able to fill in on more gigs if they need me. So, the upfront work will result in more gigs and money since I am now their go to guy when their bass player can't play if I am open.

The nice thing about the fill in festival gig Saturday is it is a 5 minute drive from my house and I will be done and home by 11 p.m. My band is playing the same festival on Sunday.

Also, I look at learning their songs as a good thing if I need them for other hired hand work and maybe my band can learn some those songs for our shows.

 

[two fingers]

I had a guy who had a $100 gig get upset because when I asked for details they included...

He wanted 4-5 rehearsals
He lives 40+ miles from me

Sorry, can't do it. When he asked what I usually charge he thought I was joking.

I've had another BL offer me another $100 gig, one rehearsal, 8 obscure songs she wanted to do because they were obscure and she liked them. Sorry, $100 does not cover the time it would take for me to shed on those songs. Three hours on a gig, two to three hours shedding, four hours travel, two or so hours at a rehearsal. Plus parking and expenses? For $100?

See, here's what bugs me about the whole thing. I am in the "if it is worth it" camp. I have no problem with those who will lose money and spend countless hours prepping for gigs at the local beer joint because that beer joint gig is the most important thing in their lives. I am not offended by those people.

So why in the heck are THOSE people so offended by those of us who don't live and die by the beer joint gig????? Why are those people quite often UPSET just because we as fill-ins ask for DETAILS BEFORE we decide to take the gig. Its almost as if some people think....

"Its a gig! You are SUPPOSED to take it. You can't say no! And MONEY???? How DARE you require me to make this PROFITABLE for you!!!! Its about the MUSIC man! Who cares if you don't see your kids all weekend? Who cares if your paperwork backs up while you learn 54 new songs from the crappy CD I made you? Who cares that you will spend 12 hours getting ready for the gig, only to drive two hours to get to the gig, only to spend two hours setting up for the gig, only to spend two hours staying out of the way because the owner wanted us set up and shut up way before he opened, only to spend four hours playing the gig, only to spend an hour packing up, only to spend two hours driving again, only to net (if my math is correct) about FOUR BUCKS an HOUR????? Its MUSIC MAN! You are SUPPOSED to WANT to do it! What's WRONG WITH YOU MAN?????"

(I have actually had a conversation with a dear old friend that went almost word for word like that. He went off on me for not being blood sweat and tears into music because I have a family now. By the way, he is on his third marriage and sees his kids every other weekend. Of course, he dumps them off at his parents' house because he HAS to gig. He is 41. He lives in a dump. I loan him my spare car all the time because his doesn't run. And he thinks I'm the loser. Oy.)

Do what you want. But don't get offended by those of us for whom there is a BUSINESS aspect to music. Sure, there is joy in it. But I'm not getting that joy without some dough (benefits aside).

 

[odin70]

My gigs are always well paid. 500$ - 700$ I dont even ask if im supposed to rehears. I ask when. I treat every gig i accept professonaly..and to me that means prep at home and rehearsal.

 

[Brad Johnson]

On my regular gigs, outside of church, paying typically between $300-$700, it's extremely rare that I'll have to do a rehearsal. Even sub gigs in that range. THAT'S WHY THEY PAY ME WHAT THEY PAY ME!


Typically the first time I'll play a new song with the band is on stage. Might go over it in soundcheck... and that usually isn't necessary. You come prepared and do what you do. So does everyone else. Its subtle peer pressure... nobody wants to be the one who couldn't pull their own weight. People who make excuses are culled from the rotation.

I do rehearse once a week for my church thing. The rehearsal is usually comprised of going over formats and predominantly playing while the choirs learn their parts. The musicians come in knowing their parts. I do that as part of the $500 I get each week for two services as agreed.

The problems usually only come up on low paying gigs with people who really aren't all that serious about what they do. Coincidence?

 

[jeffbrown]

I play bass as a hobby. I was a trained musician much earlier in my life, but I let that go for many reasons I won't get into here and now. I play in a "band" with 3 other guys who are pretty much self-trained and have no experience playing out. I joined up because I had just begun playing again (for my own enjoyment, by myself) and the rhythm player, an old friend, asked me to. I am self-employed and poor. The other guys all have lives and we are all about the same age. We play mostly originals and have absolutely no intention of being "Successful Musicians." That's right - we do it for fun.

I totally understand the rationale of those here who value their own time versus the time needed/necessary to sub and the monetary value one attaches to valuable time. BTDT, for sure - still do with my other work. That is one reason I don't make/have as much $$ as I could. I value my time with family. As an aside, getting to *this* realization nearly cost me my family.

ANYWAY, I'd like to ask a question of all the many subs, hired guns, musical mercenaries who have posted on this thread: What was it that initially got you to pick up the bass? I'm asking because in so many posts above lots of you seem to have lost the joy of playing and treat "playing" as simply a business proposition, and only that. Please understand, I'm NOT finding fault here, and I sincerely hope that after the deal has been made, once you get up on stage you enjoy the experience of making music.

I will probably never be proficient enough to consider subbing. I don't have the time per day to practice that much. I wish I did, but I too have my priorities and I'm happy with the choices I've made.

It just seems to me that there are quite a few jaded players out there who may have lost some of the joy of playing. Or are you just being uber-practical? I'd hate to think that subbing and gigging has become just a chore.

 

[iriegnome]

Sorry. 2 rehursals for 1 gig is pretty good. 4 weeks of rehursals for 1 gig. Um No... Most people are not full time players and it matters who sits in. 2 hours of rehursal time is not overly ambitious especially if you all ready know the 85 songs they are going after for a gig. I actually think 2 would be the maximum even if you didn't know any of the songs and had to learn a set or two...

 

[JimmyThunder]

I'd like to ask a question of all the many subs, hired guns, musical mercenaries who have posted on this thread: What was it that initially got you to pick up the bass? I'm asking because in so many posts above lots of you seem to have lost the joy of playing and treat "playing" as simply a business proposition, and only that. Please understand, I'm NOT finding fault here, and I sincerely hope that after the deal has been made, once you get up on stage you enjoy the experience of making music.

I have made this argument before, and then upon further contemplation realized that it doesn't really work. Some things in life are fun hobbies and some things are paying jobs. And some things are both and require a mentality where you can draw the line and not confuse what function it is serving.

Parallel: There are a LOT of dudes who enjoy working on cars. There are also a lot of dudes who have jobs as mechanics...who got their start wrenching for fun in their driveway. That doesn't mean when I need my transmission replaced and it's out of my budget it's fair for me to argue that the dude should do it cheaper because he enjoys working on cars. If he agrees to that, he's no longer a professional mechanic, he's a hobbyist who's lucky to get paid sometimes.

 

[Brad Johnson]

*snip*

I totally understand the rationale of those here who value their own time versus the time needed/necessary to sub and the monetary value one attaches to valuable time. BTDT, for sure - still do with my other work. That is one reason I don't make/have as much $$ as I could. I value my time with family. As an aside, getting to *this* realization nearly cost me my family.

ANYWAY, I'd like to ask a question of all the many subs, hired guns, musical mercenaries who have posted on this thread: What was it that initially got you to pick up the bass? I'm asking because in so many posts above lots of you seem to have lost the joy of playing and treat "playing" as simply a business proposition, and only that. Please understand, I'm NOT finding fault here, and I sincerely hope that after the deal has been made, once you get up on stage you enjoy the experience of making music.

I will probably never be proficient enough to consider subbing. I don't have the time per day to practice that much. I wish I did, but I too have my priorities and I'm happy with the choices I've made.

It just seems to me that there are quite a few jaded players out there who may have lost some of the joy of playing. Or are you just being uber-practical? I'd hate to think that subbing and gigging has become just a chore.

You may be reading something in to this that simply isn't there.

It is entirely possible to have fun playing AND make good money playing. I do it every week. In my case I play with people who take this as seriously as I do and no, taking it seriously does not mean it's some sort of grim situation, quite the opposite. It means that when we get together we're prepared to put on a good show... and doing a good or better show is fun.

People who don't take it as seriously often don't understand that waiting for a rehearsal to learn a song sucks for someone else who shows up prepared. So does constantly screwing up, becoming incapacitated and just generally dragging things down to make a gig more like work for others.

I started playing an instrument because I love music. I got better at it because I wanted to... it's never been a hobby for me, even before I started getting paid. I didn't plan on doing it for a living but with life's curves I'm glad I've had it as an option and being able to make tens of thousands of dollars doing what I love to do ain't so bad. It pays for the toys.

I still love music and I try to avoid playing with folks who ultimately don't take the gift as seriously as I do. I value my time too and it's nice to be able to make what a lot of folks work a week for on a weekend. Leaves lots of time for other pursuits and family.

 

[longfinger]

So back to the original question, "Should a fill-in be asked to rehearse?"

Well that is for the band and the fill-in to discuss. The band can ask for a rehearsal and the fill in can say no, the fill in can ask for a rehearsal and the band can say no, they both can ask and get a rehearsal, they both can be in agreement about no rehearsal.

Usually, the rehearsal will be for the fill-in's benefit, not the band's. The band already knows' what's up, the fill in needs to get up to speed. Depending on the people and the gig, the inverse could be true.

Just negotiate it. Of course they band has the right to ask for rehearsals, and the fill in has a right to reject the rehearsals. And the band has the right to find someone else who wants to rehearse. That's all fine. The fill-in might want a rehearsal, but the whole band simply does not want to rehearse just for the sub. Sometimes a compromise can be met, where the fill-in and the musical director meet over a coffee and just talk the tunes through, the medleys, intros, codas, tempos, feels, styles etc. That could be enough.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Just negotiate it is a perfect answer IME IMO. Situations differ so it's far from a simple yes/no question.

 

[troy mcclure]

What was it that initially got you to pick up the bass?

The reason any teenage boy wants to play guitar bass or drums...
GIRLS

By the time you stop using the gig as a dating service..you may actually love playing.

As the Op I knew I would get a varied bunch of answers. I am of the camp where I want to show up and play get paid and move on.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I pretty sure there are plenty of folks who picked up an instrument for reasons other than trying to get girls or whatever floats one's boat.


But a lot of people believe that's the reason for everyone. If it were true we'd all play lead guitar

And while many did just that and came to bass as a fallback, others didn't.

 

[marmadaddy]

It just seems to me that there are quite a few jaded players out there who may have lost some of the joy of playing. Or are you just being uber-practical? I'd hate to think that subbing and gigging has become just a chore.

I'm not at all jaded. I love to play and that's why I do it, but my time is valuable. The people who ask me to sub are getting paid for the gig so they obviously value their time too. I haven't been called to sub and asked that I rehearse for free in years*. Yet I still get plenty of calls. I probably turn down as many as I take. Take that for what you will.

Edit: *this doesn't count situations like fly-ins or other road gigs where we get a quick rehearsal in the day of or the night before.

 

[jeffbrown]

Thanks all for answers to my slightly OT post. The answers were much as I expected. I have been paid to play and have also played for free just for fun.

I'm happy to know most of us can run a "business" we enjoy, and do it efficiently.

Play on!