Should I be worried about buying a used Class D amp?

[gelinas666]

I have a TC Electronic "Blacksmith".. Bought it from a touring artist.. Never had an issue
.

 

[beans-on-toast]

If at all possible, buy an amp with a manufacturer's warranty. That usually means new. The problem with used is that you never know how it's been used or abused. Not that people don't have good experiences with used amps. If you do buy used, be prepared to write it off if a problem crops up as repars are expenvive as you've found out.

 

[DeepFriedBass]

That amp was actually Class A/B with a switch-mode power supply.

Wow you're right.

And now that I look further into it, a lot of these LMii's crapped out. Shame such a decent sounding head was junk. Power supply for solid state has nothing to do with tone then

 

[agedhorse]

Power supply for solid state has nothing to do with tone then

Not if they are well designed. Performance and reliability are 2 aspects of a design.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Depends

Are you frightened by thunder?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Except that class D has nothing to do with the power supply, integrated circuits or digital.



Iirc, the 8 year old LM II is not class D.

Circuit boards have nothing to do with your tech's inability to diagnose or repair an amp. What it does mean is that your tech is woefully under-educated and under-trained for working on more advanced products. I know many techs that have no problem working on PCB based products, I work on them every day too. In fact, I much prefer PCBs.

At 5 years, Mesa has the longest warranty in the industry for production products. Why? My question would be why many others are less than 5 years???

Until this guy finally hangs up his tools you get the absolute best deal by buying a working used GenzBenz and having him service it if it ever breaks down. Since he designed them he can fix them while watching TV and reading the paper and eating breakfast. He charges unbelievably friendly as a result. Slight exaggeration but you get the drift, the rate is real.

Mesa charges pretty good for their good warrantable amps. Horses for courses. Careful as ye go.

 

[Kukulkan61]

Nothing is 100% full proof machines break down, but I can personally vouch if you get Mesa or GK you won't have any issues unless your rough and careless with your gear....

 

[agedhorse]

There are plenty of good options, just do your research.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

I bought a new but B stock TC Electronics RH450 about seven or eight years ago. Because I had an in with them I got it for less than half of retail. I loved it and used it a lot and it just died on me. They are telling me it will require replacing at least one of the two circuit boards and that will cost at least what I paid for it.

I'm disinclined to spend that much and searching around for what else is out there.

I'm curious if people are wary about buying class D amps, especially used ones, given that when they go they are often so difficult and expensive to fix?

I'm tempted to just get another RH450 used, or perhaps something from Mark Bass or Aguilar, but those tiny, lightweight boxes are no longer inspiring confidence!

Do solid state amps tend to be more durable?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Only if it's am Ampeg BA-210 v2

 

[SgtHulka]

I see big advantages with class D amps, mainly weight. I have three Behringer NU3000DSP amps in my pa rack and I can tell you first hand I am very very happy. They replaced two Peavey 8.5C amps and one 1.3kC. I didn't loose any headroom and my rack shaved well over 100lbs. The dsp is incredibly useful and dependable. I consider it sorta like free.

I avoided Behringer for many many years. I talked bad about them and viewed them as junk... all I can say is my best friend has been gigging weekly with a bugera tube amp for about 6 years. Zero issues. Ah guy in a band I was in used one for years, and replaced it with one of those jet city 333 amps...zero problems. In fact, I don't personnally know anyone ever who has had a Behringer product break. I'm not saying they are the greatest amp on earth. I do think they are "ok" and are a great value. I really don't understand the hate they receive.

There are a lot of aristocrats here when it comes to amps.
Mine has been going on now for 7 years no problem.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Just like with anything else....it depends.

There is no reason to avoid Class D just because it's class D. In fact, Class D amps usually are cheaper to repair because they are modular. Just replace a board. They are also not digital. Class D is just like any other amp, there are good designs and there are bad designs.
Hear here. Good advice. I've owned two GK amps for several years now. My MB200 is a backup amp and the MB500 is my main amp for larger shows. Both are used and never gave me an ounce of problems. Love the sound, weight, and reliability.
So, just get a good one. Mesa. GK. Genzler. Bergantino. Quilter. Any of these are top notch.

 

[Alex_H]

It depends on how well the cooling is made. Thermal stress is the main factor, which kills your amp. Does it has a fan? Does it still spin? How loud is that fan?

The ultra compact amps are kind of hard to repair without a flow oven and smd soldering station:

That is the inside of a TC Electronic BAM200. Your typical amp technician could replace some of the bigger parts, but for the SMD parts and ball grid array IC he will most likely not have the equipment or experience. On the other hand this thing costs new around 130,- Euro. Used most likely about half of it. I would guess the potential repair costs exceeds the worth of the used amp.

 

[mcnach]

I bought a new but B stock TC Electronics RH450 about seven or eight years ago. Because I had an in with them I got it for less than half of retail. I loved it and used it a lot and it just died on me. They are telling me it will require replacing at least one of the two circuit boards and that will cost at least what I paid for it.

I'm disinclined to spend that much and searching around for what else is out there.

I'm curious if people are wary about buying class D amps, especially used ones, given that when they go they are often so difficult and expensive to fix?

I'm tempted to just get another RH450 used, or perhaps something from Mark Bass or Aguilar, but those tiny, lightweight boxes are no longer inspiring confidence!

Do solid state amps tend to be more durable?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

All those amps are solid state...

I think failures are very rare, but when it's your turn it sucks.
Having said that, my only amp head failing was a RH450. Fortunately that happened soon after I bought it and TC Electronics were fantastic about it and send a new amp to my local store (which had none left) within 3 days for me to pick up. The failure happened on a Saturday evening, I only got in touch on Sunday... and they replied the same day.

Buy what you like. But from a customer service point of view... I'd be looking at Mesa.

 

[dramatwist]

...only amps ever failed on me were Carvin and Line 6...

 

[nilorius]

Use should worried anyway, because use it's used, the only thing - how long 2 or 20 years.

 

[bassinflorida]

Except that class D has nothing to do with the power supply, integrated circuits or digital.



Iirc, the 8 year old LM II is not class D.

Circuit boards have nothing to do with your tech's inability to diagnose or repair an amp. What it does mean is that your tech is woefully under-educated and under-trained for working on more advanced products. I know many techs that have no problem working on PCB based products, I work on them every day too. In fact, I much prefer PCBs.

At 5 years, Mesa has the longest warranty in the industry for production products. Why? My question would be why many others are less than 5 years???

Except that class D has nothing to do with the power supply, integrated circuits or digital.



Iirc, the 8 year old LM II is not class D.

Circuit boards have nothing to do with your tech's inability to diagnose or repair an amp. What it does mean is that your tech is woefully under-educated and under-trained for working on more advanced products. I know many techs that have no problem working on PCB based products, I work on them every day too. In fact, I much prefer PCBs.

At 5 years, Mesa has the longest warranty in the industry for production products. Why? My question would be why many others are less than 5 years???

Knew I could count on being corrected.

Except that class D has nothing to do with the power supply, integrated circuits or digital.



Iirc, the 8 year old LM II is not class D.

Circuit boards have nothing to do with your tech's inability to diagnose or repair an amp. What it does mean is that your tech is woefully under-educated and under-trained for working on more advanced products. I know many techs that have no problem working on PCB based products, I work on them every day too. In fact, I much prefer PCBs.

At 5 years, Mesa has the longest warranty in the industry for production products. Why? My question would be why many others are less than 5 years???

Except that class D has nothing to do with the power supply, integrated circuits or digital.
Dangit. Now I have to do some reading.

 

[jnewmark]

I have pretty much used Genz Benz Shuttle amps for the last 10 years or so, some of them bought used. If anything goes wrong, the designer of those amps is a member here and can fix most problems that come up with these amps for a flat rate. But, in all the Shuttle amps I have owned, the only problem I have ever had was a noisy fan, due to physical damage by a previous owner. I think the Shuttle amps are a great used bargain, very dependable and user friendly. Sadly, they have been discontinued, but the designer, Agedhorse, is now with Mesa, and I would imagine the amps he designs for them are just as bulletproof.

 

[SteveHeissner]

I bought a used Genzler Magellan 800 a few years ago and it's been as reliable as a Toyota... no problems. The sound man "respects" that amp and calls it a beast while the guy who runs lights makes fun of it for being so small. The amp is very professional - doesn't take it personally and just keeps cranking out that sound.

 

[Acoop]

I'd suggest you look for an amp for it's tone and features first. ... I picked up a used TC 450 Classic, 5-years ago, and it works great, but, I really didn't need the power so I found a used Aguilar TH350 and prefer the tone over the TC. Plus the size and weight are a bonus. ... But, since I need it for upright and electric bass I prefer an amp that doesn't colour the sound of the bass. ... I wouldn't think twice of buying a used amp, if I liked it's tone. ...

 

[Ric Vice]

Although, I've never tested this theroy in with a repair, I think it should apply. If you buy an Aguillar, Mesa, GK, or Genz Benz, or Bergantino (and some I've left out) then the amp
will likely be designed in a way that you can swap out the power section which is generally an ICE Power module and replace it. Preamps are also generally modular on those amplifiers, however if you look inside something like the TC BAM 200 it's not designed for repair like a Mesa Subway is. I marvel at these super compact design but I also marvel at the design of my B-15N(C) where all you need to repair it is a tube tester, volt-o-meter, schematic (which is provided), and a soldering iron. It doesn't need a fan because the tube cage is open, admittedly one has to be careful not to touch it and the speaker can be swapped out easily. Just my take.