Should I be worried about buying a used Class D amp?

[Ralphthepainter]

I bought a used Genzler Magellan 800 a few years ago and it's been as reliable as a Toyota... no problems. The sound man "respects" that amp and calls it a beast while the guy who runs lights makes fun of it for being so small. The amp is very professional - doesn't take it personally and just keeps cranking out that sound.

Lol..
96 Ford Ranger 478,000 miles nothing except alternator and ac ever repaired
87 gmc 305 cargo van 387,000 nothing but timing chain, alternator and water pump
92 sho 247,000 not one penny
All sold running.

2007 Toyota Camry garage kept, dealer maintained, 105,000... so far it has a new head, new transmission, water pump, alternator, rack n pinion, power steering pump, all four wheel barrings, struts, AC replaced, radio doesn't work, both front window motors replaced, windshield whippers motor replaced. Biggest lemon I've ever owned.

My sisters 2010 Honda Civic Is almost as bad.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Although, I've never tested this theroy in with a repair, I think it should apply. If you buy an Aguillar, Mesa, GK, or Genz Benz, or Bergantino (and some I've left out) then the amp
will likely be designed in a way that you can swap out the power section which is generally an ICE Power module and replace it. Preamps are also generally modular on those amplifiers, however if you look inside something like the TC BAM 200 it's not designed for repair like a Mesa Subway is. I marvel at these super compact design but I also marvel at the design of my B-15N(C) where all you need to repair it is a tube tester, volt-o-meter, schematic (which is provided), and a soldering iron. It doesn't need a fan because the tube cage is open, admittedly one has to be careful not to touch it and the speaker can be swapped out easily. Just my take.

Many amps use an integrated architecture. That presents problems. Assuming that you could adapt another power module, the first challenge is how to retrofit it into the allotted space. You'd have to be really lucky to fit an entire power module into the available real estate. Now if the power module were in a separate enclosure....

 

[Bunk McNulty]

I love me a 5 lb. amp with 500+ watts, however it is made. I've had good and bad luck with Class D stuff. For me, anyway, the downside is that when something goes wrong, your local guy doesn't have the necessary knowledge or equipment to do repairs. I am very, very grateful that @agedhorse is on the scene for Genz-Benz. Also that there is a GK service center within an hour's drive. In any event, I'm never going back to the monsters I used to lug around!

 

[Bassdirty]

92 sho 247,000 not one penny..

.

I had a 1989 SHO w/5 speed Tuned Port induction (Yamaha motor). That thing was sweet..and quite a sleeper. The guy I got it from said it had 95K miles, but when I was at motor vehicle department, lookin at the title, it was last registered with 150K. :0

I drove it for another 30K with no (major) issues, other than a motor mount, til I sold it. I loved that car.

Carry on.

T$

 

[JRA]

I'm tempted to just get another RH450 used, or perhaps something from Mark Bass or Aguilar, but those tiny, lightweight boxes are no longer inspiring confidence!

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

i think that generalizing from one experience is silly, intellectually, but it's also limiting, in practice. it's hard for me to accept that you got seven years of reliable service out of a 'lemon', so i think your avoidance/reluctance is dissociative.

IME: 'rigors-of-use' typically has more to do with equipment failure than a specific manufacturer or model line...add or subtract a 'luck index/quotient' and you'd probably account for most of the stories/reports you're reading here, good or bad. of course, we all share the disappointment of mechanical/electronic items that do not last forever. i think there are advantages and disadvantages associated with all of your available options (new or used) and that knowing how to make the right choice for your own needs is the most important aspect of 'consuming'. as agedhorse posted: do your homework/research. i would add: cross your fingers!

good luck with your amp choice(s)!

 

[baileyboy]

Check out the Mesa line. Solid, reliable with excellent customer service and 5 year warranty.

Best advice on this thread^^^

 

[Skillet]

I had a first generation Ampeg PF-500 (the ones that reportedly had issues). Played it for 8 years, sold it to a guy who gigs it weekly. It's still going strong. I have total confidence in my PF-800.

 

[David Jayne]

Qualities we look for in an amp:
Cheap to buy
Sounds good
Cheap to repair

Pick any two.

 

[And I]

Class D amps are no less reliable than any other power amp topology. Cast away your prejudices and buy a used class D amp. Use the same common sense you would for any other purchase--buy from a reputable source.

 

[bikeplate]

No you should not

 

[DeepFriedBass]

No you should not

Haha. I just picture the previous owner leaving the dial on 11 every night while he passes out drunk for 3 years straight. They're cheap enough. If you can save 500 then you can also save 900!

 

[quickfix]

I had a first generation Ampeg PF-500 (the ones that reportedly had issues). Played it for 8 years, sold it to a guy who gigs it weekly. It's still going strong. I have total confidence in my PF-800.

I still use my little Ampeg PF 800, and it sounds glorious with the PF-115HE.
Trust? Such a fleeting thing...but to be fair I still think it was the load I placed upon it that caused its failures. The failures I had were all with a 4 ohm load (two 8 ohm speaker cabinets).
It's never failed with a single 8 ohm load.

 

[mmon77]

I believe the class D reliability concerns are largely a product of the musicians that use them. Allot of folkore and mystery surrounds the equipment we use, and we're hesitant to change. For every failure you hear about there are surely many times more happy users.

Class D topology isn't even remotely new at this point. It's been around for almost as long as the tube amps that we cherish so much.

Buy a class D amp from a manufacturer you trust, and you'll be fine. You may have to go to the gym more to make up for not lugging around that lead sled though.

 

[sing-modulator]

I work in a repair shop. Don't buy class D, they're very expensive and time consuming to repair. Solid state analog amplifiers are the most reliable. I own amps that are older than I am that still work great, but I know that the switching power supplies used in class D (ESPECIALLY budget class D) amps won't last longer than 10 years.

 

[sing-modulator]

Just like with anything else....it depends.

There is no reason to avoid Class D just because it's class D. In fact, Class D amps usually are cheaper to repair because they are modular. Just replace a board. They are also not digital. Class D is just like any other amp, there are good designs and there are bad designs.

So, just get a good one. Mesa. GK. Genzler. Bergantino. Quilter. Any of these are top notch.

That's not really true. On a solid state amp, it might cost $150 to change out some shorted transistors. On a class D amp, it'll cost hundreds of dollars to replace the entire board, and many of the power supply boards for those amps aren't available any more. Discrete components will typically be available and easier to work with than proprietary power supplies tuned just right for a particular amp.

 

[sing-modulator]

Except that class D has nothing to do with the power supply, integrated circuits or digital.



Iirc, the 8 year old LM II is not class D.

Circuit boards have nothing to do with your tech's inability to diagnose or repair an amp. What it does mean is that your tech is woefully under-educated and under-trained for working on more advanced products. I know many techs that have no problem working on PCB based products, I work on them every day too. In fact, I much prefer PCBs.

At 5 years, Mesa has the longest warranty in the industry for production products. Why? My question would be why many others are less than 5 years???

Class D amplifiers very often integrate the power supply with the amplifier, so the switching power supply is the amplifier.

 

[David Jayne]

The concern is not about 'reliability.' It's about REPAIRABILITY. The way they are made makes them both inexpensive to buy compared to the old days but also difficult (for most techs) to repair, thus the default repair is generally board replacement, which can often exceed the value of the amp. For example I have an old SWR SM900. I bought it new in what would be about $3k in today's dollars. It's been gigged to heck and has been repaired several times. The repairs together total maybe $600 over about twenty years. Worth it. Now you can buy a new amp for what I paid in repairs. But the price of repairs has gone up(skilled labor) while the price of amps has gone DOWN(miniaturized electronics+automation). This creates a conundrum.

 

[DWBass]

All my Class D amps were bought used. Not a single issue so far. Oh and there is no such thing as a digital amp. Class D does not mean digital.

 

[bobdabilder]

I avoid ampegs due to their history

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Personally I'm not a fan of class d but there are good class d amps and there are cheap junk class D amps.

TC Electronic = Music Group = Behringer

My experience with Behringer:

"Repair" under warranty = usually new unit or change entire circuit boards.
Repair after warranty has expired = often very difficult, in some cases not even possible and usually not worth the cost vs buying another new unit.

I don't buy anything related to Behringer anymore. Too many bad experiences. There's also the environmental impact of buying cheaply manufactured electronics when top quality products that will last a lifetime and are designed for repairs are actually still available. Quality may cost more short term but will save you a lot of money and hassle long term.