Along with all the other good advice here I’d add, use open strings and harmonics as references and practice double stops.
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Should I give up on fretless?
- Thread starter mjcarp79
- Start date
devnulljp
Supporting Member
When I started playing upright -- as unlined fretless as you can get -- I put a (nonmuting obv) tuner inline all the time, practice, rehearsal, gig, whatever. That and listening and practising got me through. I finally dropped the tuner after a year or so, but it was good to have the reference in the beginning.
Even Pino thought he played out of tune though, so maybe you're not as bad as you think you are.
Even Pino thought he played out of tune though, so maybe you're not as bad as you think you are.
Any upright player will tell you that intonation is a constant struggle, and even the best have good days and not so good days. Another thing that upright players know that probably applies to fretless as well, is that the instrument demands regular daily practice. Skip one day and your intonation suffers. Stick with it - play an hour a day of scales and arpeggios and you’ll make progress.
After owning a few fretted bass ukes, I had a fretless made. My problem was having 6 fretted that I rotated through, made it tough to adjust to the fretless I played less often. I ended up giving it up go with fretted only.
If you love the sound, it's going to haunt you forever. Might as well commit to it. 
Why not go straight to an electric bass teacher who plays fretless?
Do you hear in your head the notes you are about to play before actually playing them? Can you sing the line you want to play on the bass?
Fretless bass playing is actually very similar to singing. If you can sing a line in tune, you are able to play it in tune on the fretless bass. If you don't pre-hear it and cannot sing it, then you will have hard time playing it in tune in the bass. Ear training exercises can help you.
Left hand technique is another very important point to consider. If you play with one-finger-per-fret technique, it may happen that when you hand gets tired, notes fingered with your index finger are too sharp, while those fingered with your pinky are flat. I personally prefer using upright bass technique, in which the hand never needs to stretch, because it covers only a whole tone (which of course implies more frequent shifting).
Fretless bass playing is actually very similar to singing. If you can sing a line in tune, you are able to play it in tune on the fretless bass. If you don't pre-hear it and cannot sing it, then you will have hard time playing it in tune in the bass. Ear training exercises can help you.
Left hand technique is another very important point to consider. If you play with one-finger-per-fret technique, it may happen that when you hand gets tired, notes fingered with your index finger are too sharp, while those fingered with your pinky are flat. I personally prefer using upright bass technique, in which the hand never needs to stretch, because it covers only a whole tone (which of course implies more frequent shifting).
Taking a few lessons with an experienced teacher, even online via Zoom, will probably be easier than listing and ultimately selling your bass.
It's nearly impossible to give direct advice based on text, but a good teacher can look at your technique, position, sound, etc. and see what areas you need to work on as well as chart a course for how to improve. You likely know more than you think you do, it could be something small that's holding you back. Or it might be that you've been playing the same routine for so long you need someone from the outside to shake it up and give you new stuff to add to your practice routine.
Lastly, a tip from someone who played professionally for 25 years: it's okay to suck. You are allowed to enjoy being terrible. There is no law against it! When I was gigging to pay the bills I felt a constant pressure to be good. Being bad at bass could directly lead to not paying my rent! But once I got a day job (just this year) and no longer had to hustle for gigs every week I had an epiphany: It's okay to suck! Unless someone is paying you to play for them, and has an expectation of a certain level of proficiency and execution, you are free to get good or be bad or anything in between. If you enjoy it then it's a positive thing to keep in your life, even if you don't feel you're capable of doing it professionally right now.
It's nearly impossible to give direct advice based on text, but a good teacher can look at your technique, position, sound, etc. and see what areas you need to work on as well as chart a course for how to improve. You likely know more than you think you do, it could be something small that's holding you back. Or it might be that you've been playing the same routine for so long you need someone from the outside to shake it up and give you new stuff to add to your practice routine.
Lastly, a tip from someone who played professionally for 25 years: it's okay to suck. You are allowed to enjoy being terrible. There is no law against it! When I was gigging to pay the bills I felt a constant pressure to be good. Being bad at bass could directly lead to not paying my rent! But once I got a day job (just this year) and no longer had to hustle for gigs every week I had an epiphany: It's okay to suck! Unless someone is paying you to play for them, and has an expectation of a certain level of proficiency and execution, you are free to get good or be bad or anything in between. If you enjoy it then it's a positive thing to keep in your life, even if you don't feel you're capable of doing it professionally right now.
It shouldn't be a chore, but a pleasure to play. I was never able to play an unlined fretless. I found that a lined fretless with the intonation set properly is pretty easy to play. Also, using your fretting hand to do a little vibrato helps too. I love playing my 6 string fretless. It's a blast.
I struggled with fretless as well. I had access to nice instruments on multiple occasions, and played them for an extended time. Never really could get my intonation to settle.
My solution was to get an electric upright. I felt comfortable immediately on the EUB.
I think I could actually get comfortable on a fretless bass guitar, but it would require some sacrifice. 1. I would need to play the fretless exclusively for an extended time. 2. I would need to abandon one finger per fret (OFPF) and revert to Simandl fingering, which is what I use on upright. I am not willing to make either sacrifice.
I was able to switch easily between fretted BG, EUB, and a traditional upright bass as long as I could hear well enough to adjust my intonation. However when playing in a classical style, you can't typically hear your instrument very well. Under this circumstance you have to pretty much be able to nail the intonation, without the benefit of hearing.
The upright and EUB I played did not intonate exactly the same, so this made it problematic to play the EUB whenever I needed to play upright in a classical style. A few days before rehearsal started for our concert band tours, I would put the EUB in it's case and work on Simandl to dial in my intonation. Never had any problems switching between fretted BG and upright bass.
I think there is a similar problem when going back and forth between fretless and fretted, even if the basses are otherwise identical. When I play fretted bass, I sort of cheat a bit and do not actually play right on top of the frets. My hand is not really large enough to use OFPF in the lower positions if I play right on top of the frets, which is why I would need to revert to Simandl fingering to really get comfortable on fretless.
Also, I don't think the spacing for correct intonations will be exactly the same even if I did play right on top of the frets. So switching between fretted and fretless is always going to require some degree of adjustment. This is why I think it's a good idea to play the fretless exclusively until you feel super confident.
Even if you do get comfortable on fretless, I believe most people require fairly constant practice to maintain decent intonation. So part of it is putting in the necessary work.
It's possible you lack the necessary talent. But it's also possible that you could succeed if you played the fretless exclusively and put in sufficient practice time. We all have different levels of talent and also different levels of dedication.
It's really up to you to decide whether playing the fretless well is enough of a priority to make the necessary investment in time and effort. If the answer is no, you can keep the fretless to dink around on, without concern or seriousness. Or you can sell it if you would rather have the resulting funds for something else. Either way, I don't see any shame in it. IMHO do whatever you think will bring you the most joy.
Even though I don't ever expect to master the fretless BG, I think it would be nice to have a Epiphone Zenith or perhaps a Takamine TB10 (or let's be honest, I want both). In truth my priority is to find a decent deal on a fairly rare EUB and also I want to buy a carved upright, so I will probably never get around to buying a fretless. It would be nice, but I have other priorities.
Good Luck!
My solution was to get an electric upright. I felt comfortable immediately on the EUB.
I think I could actually get comfortable on a fretless bass guitar, but it would require some sacrifice. 1. I would need to play the fretless exclusively for an extended time. 2. I would need to abandon one finger per fret (OFPF) and revert to Simandl fingering, which is what I use on upright. I am not willing to make either sacrifice.
I was able to switch easily between fretted BG, EUB, and a traditional upright bass as long as I could hear well enough to adjust my intonation. However when playing in a classical style, you can't typically hear your instrument very well. Under this circumstance you have to pretty much be able to nail the intonation, without the benefit of hearing.
The upright and EUB I played did not intonate exactly the same, so this made it problematic to play the EUB whenever I needed to play upright in a classical style. A few days before rehearsal started for our concert band tours, I would put the EUB in it's case and work on Simandl to dial in my intonation. Never had any problems switching between fretted BG and upright bass.
I think there is a similar problem when going back and forth between fretless and fretted, even if the basses are otherwise identical. When I play fretted bass, I sort of cheat a bit and do not actually play right on top of the frets. My hand is not really large enough to use OFPF in the lower positions if I play right on top of the frets, which is why I would need to revert to Simandl fingering to really get comfortable on fretless.
Also, I don't think the spacing for correct intonations will be exactly the same even if I did play right on top of the frets. So switching between fretted and fretless is always going to require some degree of adjustment. This is why I think it's a good idea to play the fretless exclusively until you feel super confident.
Even if you do get comfortable on fretless, I believe most people require fairly constant practice to maintain decent intonation. So part of it is putting in the necessary work.
It's possible you lack the necessary talent. But it's also possible that you could succeed if you played the fretless exclusively and put in sufficient practice time. We all have different levels of talent and also different levels of dedication.
It's really up to you to decide whether playing the fretless well is enough of a priority to make the necessary investment in time and effort. If the answer is no, you can keep the fretless to dink around on, without concern or seriousness. Or you can sell it if you would rather have the resulting funds for something else. Either way, I don't see any shame in it. IMHO do whatever you think will bring you the most joy.
Even though I don't ever expect to master the fretless BG, I think it would be nice to have a Epiphone Zenith or perhaps a Takamine TB10 (or let's be honest, I want both). In truth my priority is to find a decent deal on a fairly rare EUB and also I want to buy a carved upright, so I will probably never get around to buying a fretless. It would be nice, but I have other priorities.
Good Luck!
I play unlined fretless and I’ve been fortunate to have bassists better than me tell me that I have good intonation—but I certainly didn’t start that way and my guitarist still hates it when I being the fretless to rehearsal or gigs.
A really good piece of advice that I read the other day is that you should practice by playing lines you already know backwards and forwards on a fretted bass, since you know what they’re supposed to sound like and you already have the muscle memory built in for the songs. That means you have less adjustment to do on a fretless and it’s easier to adjust to the correct sound.
A really good piece of advice that I read the other day is that you should practice by playing lines you already know backwards and forwards on a fretted bass, since you know what they’re supposed to sound like and you already have the muscle memory built in for the songs. That means you have less adjustment to do on a fretless and it’s easier to adjust to the correct sound.
While I do agree there is a difference in that on fretless bass you have visual aid that you don’t have when singing. Also if you hear it in your head and your technique sucks it won’t sound in tune either. So it’s a combination of things.
What helped me was recording a line with my fretted bass, then looping it and playing along with my fretless until I’d nailed the intonation. If you’re getting nowhere it’s probably just that you’re not practicing effectively or need to mix it up a bit.
I ended up getting rid of the fretless in the end as it just wasn’t applicable to the kind of music I was playing and didn’t have time to practice. Super glad I gave it a go though!
I ended up getting rid of the fretless in the end as it just wasn’t applicable to the kind of music I was playing and didn’t have time to practice. Super glad I gave it a go though!
Lots of advice here in this thread.
Lined vs unlined: in the grand scheme of things, I don't believe it is more than an aesthetic preference or, for some, a placebo. Try both. Play what you like.
Looking at the fingerboard/your fretting hand,etc: again, a personal preference. It helps some people. Others don't need to. Just because xyz player does something, doesn't mean that it will help you. Only you can figure that out. For some reason, fans of a certain bass player with the same last name as the star of the movie "Die Hard" are like a religious cult when it comes to this, and other fretless dogma.
Have you had anyone else listen to and critique your playing? Many times, we are our own worst critic.
I love playing fretless. I'm not the best, or the worst. But it is fun for me. I guess if it stopped being fun, I would consider quitting.
I have been struggling for years to learn the banjo. I've learned to savor the little victories and focus on those to keep me going. If you decide not to give up on fretless bass, keep that in mind.
Lined vs unlined: in the grand scheme of things, I don't believe it is more than an aesthetic preference or, for some, a placebo. Try both. Play what you like.
Looking at the fingerboard/your fretting hand,etc: again, a personal preference. It helps some people. Others don't need to. Just because xyz player does something, doesn't mean that it will help you. Only you can figure that out. For some reason, fans of a certain bass player with the same last name as the star of the movie "Die Hard" are like a religious cult when it comes to this, and other fretless dogma.
Have you had anyone else listen to and critique your playing? Many times, we are our own worst critic.
I love playing fretless. I'm not the best, or the worst. But it is fun for me. I guess if it stopped being fun, I would consider quitting.
I have been struggling for years to learn the banjo. I've learned to savor the little victories and focus on those to keep me going. If you decide not to give up on fretless bass, keep that in mind.
Do you sing? I’m willing to bet based on the info at hand that the answer is no. Start singing everything. I dislike singing and don’t do it in front of people but in my car or doing yardwork or whatever I’m constantly singing and it has helped greatly. It will greatly improve your “inner ear” and you will be able to identify and correct your intonation on bass much easier and quicker. Best of luck.
