Should I give up on fretless?

[mjcarp79]

I have been trying to learn fretless for years, and I am wondering if I should "throw in the towel" at this point. I just cannot seem to be able to get the intonation thing down. I have some times where I feel like I getting somewhere, and then the next day I can't get anywhere even close with the pitch. Worse, on my bad days, I can't even tell if I am sharp or flat: all I know is that sounds like putrid excrement.

I have heard that some people just don't have "good enough ears," I and I wonder if I am in that category.

A whole other angle on this is one of the main reasons I was interested in fretless: the ability to tune on the fly to things that are not perfectly in tune. I have recently been involved in discussion about this here on TB, and many have pointed out to me that this is very harmful and flawed philosophy.

See: Is there such a thing: variable detuning pedal?

Between having been thinking about it all wrong for decades, and trying for decades and basically getting nowhere, I wonder if I should should just cut my losses and sell my fretless. The only thing that gives me pause is that I do love the tone of a fretless: I have never been one to slide around or use vibrato. I just like the richness that seems to be an inherent part of the fretless sound.

I don't really want to be a "quitter," but I don't wish the flog the proverbial deceased equine either.

 

[TrevorG]

Not sure what you mean by “getting nowhere”. Played fretless exclusively for about ten years alongside the trombone. Both required good ears and much practice. Personally I don’t think you can waste any form of education so please don’t get despondent. There’s a chance the bass is not right for you in the way of neck scale, dot/line placement or tone so try other fretless basses to see. Practice scales and stuff really slowly focusing on listening (sorry if you already know this). Good luck.

 

[JRA]

Should I give up on fretless?
never quit!

i have 'off days', too. but if all of us caved because we weren't getting it right = no music......ever!

The only thing that gives me pause is that I do love the tone of a fretless: I have never been one to slide around or use vibrato. I just like the richness that seems to be an inherent part of the fretless sound.

keep your fretless and enjoy it for that wonderful tone you get when you play it! if you never do more with it than that = you win!

 

[Les Fret]

Do you have a lined or unlined neck? Lined might be easier for you. But above all get your hand position right. Practice with a drone or backing track.

 

[foal30]

Practice slowly, practice thoroughly

I like reading off the stave, when I hear a “bad” note I have to re -pitch it without looking.

If I didn’t play Fretless because I was worried about intonation my life would be the poorer.

 

[mjcarp79]

Do you have a lined or unlined neck? Lined might be easier for you. But above all get your hand position right. Practice with a drone or backing track.

I had an unlined neck for about twenty years, but got a lined about three years ago. At first, I felt that the lines were helpful, but I have since had it pounded firmly into to head that any looking while playing is a "cardinal sin" with fretless. Accordingly, I have been practicing almost entirely without looking.

I have been practicing exclusively by playing along with recorded music that I like.

Any pointers on getting my left hand position right? Any videos or other good resources? Thanks!

 

[mjcarp79]

Not sure what you mean by “getting nowhere”. Played fretless exclusively for about ten years alongside the trombone. Both required good ears and much practice. Personally I don’t think you can waste any form of education so please don’t get despondent. There’s a chance the bass is not right for you in the way of neck scale, dot/line placement or tone so try other fretless basses to see. Practice scales and stuff really slowly focusing on listening (sorry if you already know this). Good luck.

What I mean by "getting nowhere" is that I not making progress in regard to intonation. I have certainly progressed from the point of being a total beginner, but I am nowhere near a level where I could actually play in public. My frustration stems from my impression that I have "hit a wall" and am unable to get past the level where I am at now.

My concern is that my ears are just not good enough.

 

[foal30]

You can and should totally be looking at your left hand.
Limiting your available senses isn’t sensible IMO

 

[mjcarp79]

Should I give up on fretless?
never quit!

i have 'off days', too. but if all of us caved because we weren't getting it right = no music......ever!


keep your fretless and enjoy it for that wonderful tone you get when you play it! if you never do more with it than that = you win!

Thanks!

If I may vent/rant a little more, I feel that on my very best days, my intonation is still nowhere near good enough to actually perform for poor, innocent people. My frustration is that I cannot seem to advance past the "skill" level that I am at now.

Also, while I do have moments of enjoying the tone of the fretless, I am wondering if the stress and mental pain of striving to play in tune is anything like worth it. Rant over. Thanks!

 

[jimmydean]

Every 3 years or so , I buy a fretless and give it ago for a couple of months , give up and swear I'll never play one again and this has been going on since the late 70's .

 

[arbiterusa]

I’m an all the time fretless player. LOOK AT YOUR LEFT HAND AND THE LINES. Just because some people don’t need to look doesn’t mean that’s right for you. Sounds like you need to. So do it! Stare at that left hand and those lines, make something happen, and enjoy the tone.

 

[Killing Floor]

I don’t know what you should do. But I’ll say what works for me. I practice with my tuner on often. I watch that to check my landings. I also find that in a band or jam context it always seems like my brain reacts faster and the adjustments are more instantaneous. And I play unlined.

That all being said, I grew up on violin and my teacher was quick to whack my hand if I looked at the neck too often so, what can I say, that worked.

Don’t give up. Just change the way you practice and set achievable goals.

 

[ryco]

No. Don't give up on it.

What is fun to do is go to YouTube and dial in drone videos and play to those.
They come in all chords (keys) and qualities = a lot of Major, minor, Dominant.
They come in different lengths for 5 min to 20 min and beyond.
Some will switch back and forth between 2 chords.
They usually come without rhythm or drums so you can play on any note as long as you want.

There is something very freeing about playing notes slowly and freely. Going slow you can hear when your intonation is dead on, and from there you can manipulate the note a little. You can play through the chord tones, or run through the scale notes, and even listen to the outside notes.

 

[Deleted member 341607]

No

 

[logdrum]

Who told you not to look? Jaco, Gary Willis all look. Before you say Richard Bona, well he covers it up by his his scat singing . If you looked even just for a week, your intonation is probably going to improve.

 

[juancaminos]

After playing unlined fretless I sold off my lined fretless basses. I find the lines to be a bit confusing.
The width of your finger on the fretboard play a bit of a role on a lined fretless. As to play up the neck the lines get closer together. Do you play toward the low end of the line or high side of the line as your fingers take up most of the distance between the lines?

The only answer is that you have to listen in which case the lines are kind of deceiving. Just play the crap out if it, put away all your fretted basses. I was really anxious about going the unlined route but it turned out way esier for me.

Of course we're all different...fretless may not be for you.

 

[Les Fret]

I had an unlined neck for about twenty years, but got a lined about three years ago. At first, I felt that the lines were helpful, but I have since had it pounded firmly into to head that any looking while playing is a "cardinal sin" with fretless. Accordingly, I have been practicing almost entirely without looking.

I have been practicing exclusively by playing along with recorded music that I like.

Any pointers on getting my left hand position right? Any videos or other good resources? Thanks!

Well, maybe there is your fault. Just look at the fretboard and the lines. All the great players look. It’s not a sin. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t use your ears.

As for hand position. Try upright fingering in the first five positions and OFPF from the the fifth position and on. Keep your thumb aligned and behind the neck. Any good teacher can show you this. Better than YouTube videos. Good luck!

 

[rocu]

I play the fiddle. Something that helps practice intonation is playing with a drone. There are online tone generators or shruti box emulators that work pretty well.

The best way to get good intonation, IMO, is playing with other people. Use your ears and keep it simple and you’ll get it.

 

[SLO Surfer]

If you just now started practicing along with in-tune songs, then you just started trying to learn fretless. The whole time you were playing along with out of tune recordings, you weren’t playing fretless properly. All that time and work you put in that manner was actually making it harder to learn fretless, and even doing damage to your technique and ear development. So consider the fact that you are starting fretless over from scratch by adjusting the recording pitch to match A440 with your instrument.

Also, it’s ok to look at your fingerboard/fret lines. Just know the lines aren’t always totally accurate so you’ll still need to make fine adjustments using your ears.

 

[N4860]

Agreed on the people above saying to look at your left hand if that helps. Playing with a drone is also great for getting your intonation in tune. Another method I like to do is to record a bass line with my fretted bass, something like a 2 octave major scale, and then play over top of it with my fretless. Anything out of tune will be very obvious compared to just playing along with a click or drum track with no reference.