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Should ships be armed to combat pirates?
- Thread starter baba
- Start date
or, we could let the small boats get right up on the side and than drop 55 gallon drums of chum (bloody chopped up fish) off the side of the boat onto their small boats, it would go right through the small boat sinking it and also alert every shark in the area that there is a meal waiting for them.
Every try dropping a 55 gallon drum on a moving target? Its pretty damn hard. I mean just try dropping some frozen turkeys off an overpass into traffic and see how easy it is to hit something. Not easy at all, now is it?
Now if we had a gas powered harpoon machine guns with flesh eating ant capsules in the tips... we'd be golden.
If they are tied to the ship from the rope then they are moving right along with the ship at the same speed, it shouldn't be that hard to drop something straight down on a boat that is right next to you and moving at the same speed in the same direction.
Molotov cocktails.
Old School.
'course, you may not want to be throwing Molotov's around a tanker.
It might solve the whole "can't get into a port because we're armed issue". Molotov cocktail is not an 'arm' per se, just bar refreshments put to good use.
- Apr 1, 2000
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Burn.
I think they should just put televisions on the sides of the boat and show Rick Roll nonstop.
OR put one of Maki on every ship.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
these countries that you mentioned don't have lawlessness rampant because they have implemented a structured system of law and order and a government tasked with enforcing it.
before anything like "economy" can be addressed in any part of the world, the concept of solid, disciplined government needs to be implemented, and that includes here.
even those responsible for these attacks know this. they are highly organized, with a pretty solid organizational infrastructure, considering. they implemented this enterprise entirely on their own - they obviously didn't receive international aid or guidance to implement this. they have, for all intents and purposes, developed the foundation of governing bodies, only these bodies are focused on criminal behavior.
it is not the international community's responsibility to go in and build different social structures within the somalian borders, but rather to convince these already implemented organizations that their chosen mode of operations will not be tolerated. it is -their- responsibility to find a more constructive outlet with their talents. until they do they should expect nothing but opposition.
they're not helpless, obviously, nor are they stupid. for those of us in the west to think it's our responsiblity to come and save them from themselves borders on racism, to me (i.e. "help the helpless stupid africans"). they've shown themselves to be capable of organizing, of following orders, of working together for their own common welfare.
they just need to direct this in a manner more befitting a citizen of the world. and they better act soon before they become even more of a target, if they value their autonomy.
I think you are taking that part of my post out of context. I was simply offering a counter example to the idea the economic condition has nothing to do with the incidence of piracy.
I wouldn't say its obvious that they haven't received international aid or guidance. There is a lot of speculation and some good evidence that some of the piracy operations are funded and trained by larger terrorist organizations as a means of acquiring arms and funding. Even if that was pure speculation, they are many that are run by the Somali warlords who are largely from a military background and run their (non-piracy) operations in a military fashion. Its not surprising that the piracy arms operate in the same way. My point being that I'm not sure that these developed piracy rings developed out of no where, but are part of the larger activities of bigger "organizations" for want of a better term.
I'm not suggestion that it is the international communities responsibility to do anything.
Whilst I can't speak for the pirates, I wouldn't expect that they would expect anything less than opposition. However, its the level of that opposition that is the issue.
Firstly I would never suggest that its anyone's responsibility to save people from themselves in the way you have expressed it. That is perverse. Anyone who has turned on a tv in the last 30 years would realize that any nation believing it can save another nation from itself by imposing law and order or its way of life is folly. However I think its important that you understand the situation that Somalia is in too. The group "working together for their own welfare" is largely comprised of a small number of different nationalities operating out of a rebel part of Somalia (there being many different "quasi-states" within Somalia with different factions fighting for them). I don't think its helpful to generalise from the pirates organizational ability across to the population of Somalia at large, many of whom are literally starving to death under various oppressive warlords.
I don't think Somalia has any autonomy to be valued. Its divided up among warlords fighting amongst themselves. I am sure the average SOmalian would love to act in a manner befitting a citizen of the world, but I would guess that their first priority is ensuring they have food on the table before embarking on these more idealistic goals. I don't have an issue with foreign countries working to provide this kind of aid (ie humanitarian aid) to countries like this.
I'm not, I'm going to bed. Actually I think John and I are largely saying the same thing, but its the facts that are perhaps in dispute. I don't think there is an easy solution to the piracy problem. From what I have seen, the US administration seems to agree, going for a 4 pronged approach rather than looking at a single angle (ie armed ships etc). I don't think its in anyone's interest to, for example, invade Somalia (given recent history). However, the fact is there are Somalian children starving to death under waring factions and humanitarian aid and political pressure may be appropriate where military action may not. I certainly have no problem with ships defending themselves or navy's defending ships from attack. However, I don't believe for a second that merely stopping pirates as they attack will end piracy. The sea is simply too bigger place and every navy in the world operating in the gulf couldn't ensure safe passage for every commercial ship travelling through there.
OOPS. I did a wiki lookup on molotov's. Should have done that before my post. lol
I thought they were just whiskey bombs, or vodka, everclear - sometype of flamable liquor. Yes. Gasoline would be more effective I suppose.
Yeesh. I guess I haven't been to enough riots to know better. - Left up to me I would have been throwing good booze at the pirates.
They're not arguing yet. They're still in the courtship phase where they hold hands and clarify each other's point. The real argument doesn't arrive until after the honeymoon phase has worn off.
some motivated marines/seals,couple apaches,a few gunboats,could escort the freighters thru the pirate zone for a fee.......blow up a few pirate boats and they prolly will go back to raping and killing each other...less lucrative but safer
+1. There's nothing to say that you can't combat the pirates militarily in controlled/surgical operations on the ground while at the same time doing all you can to help build back the country's infrastructure so that people there would have other options besides Piracy/terrorism. If your country provides jobs and opportunity for you to better yourself and your family, suddenly violent thuggery doesn't seem like such a good option.
Man, why hasnt anyone thought of that before?!
Im emailing President Obama as we speak.
while i appreciate the attempt at sarcasm,i'll reserve the right to respond for when you move out of your moms basementMan, why hasnt anyone thought of that before?!
Im emailing President Obama as we speak.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
i'll buy that. i was asuming the most meager beginnings to their operations to illustrate a point, though, in that they are capable of organizing if they wish. they aren't helpless or clueless.
i only assumed you might be since everyone else in this thread was
.i think it's safe to say that they have operated in what they percieved to be a gray area up until now, where they felt they were going to be paid off with minimal complaint.
actually, i wasn't really directing that at you so much as i was stating that as a counter to some of the ideas i've seen posed as potential responses to this situation.
i was aware of that, but i was also figuring that the success these pirates have enjoyed might have served, up until now, to bring some of these factions together in some kind of loose confederacy. such an organization would be easier to build into something legitimate given the right motivation, than building from scratch. if anything, i think it's in the international community at large's best interest to provide the appropriate carrots and sticks to make that happen.
unfortunately, without the infrastructural reinforcement of a legitmate organized governing body, there's little chance that anything resembling humanitarian aid will actually make it to those most in need.
ultimately, i don't think this will ever stop until a legitimate government with real power and authority over its people comes into being, but i do think that the international community can raise the stakes sufficiently that the benefits of these actions are overshadowed by their potential penalties. not gonna stop em from happening, but will certainly cut down on them.
